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293: Julie Winkle Giulioni – Helping Leaders and Employees Grow in their Careers

Julie Winkle Giulioni helps people do what they love and help serve their organizations better

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Julie Winkle Giulioni Show Notes Page

Julie Winkle Giulioni took a role that looked so prestigious. By the end of the first week, she knew she made a dreadful mistake. All of her instincts told her to run for the door, but she didn’t. At that time, she decided that she needed to make a one-year commitment and was going to make the best of that situation. While it didn’t turn out the way that she expected and it didn’t send her down the career trajectory that she dreamt of, what she did do was mind that experience.

It was a rough environment, but she decided each day to look for where the learning was, where could she try one new thing, where she could exercise one new skill, or just get a little bit better at anything. It got her through the year, and it was probably the richest growth experience that she’d had in terms of know the grit that she had and her ability to get through and make the best of it.

Julie Winkle Giulioni is a development evangelist who’s passionate about ensuring that everyone has the opportunity to learn and grow to their potential – so they can fully engage in work and life. She’s been deeply involved in learning from her first teenage job teaching modeling and charm to children. She was a high school vocational education teacher and parlayed that into becoming the department chair and professor of Fashion Marketing at Woodbury University in Southern California.

Julie really wanted to return to industry so she pivoted from education to learning and development when she took on a corporate role at Carter Hawley Hale and then Alexander and Alexander (now Aon.)

When she was recruited to one of her own vendors, Zenger Miller, Julie had the opportunity to cut her consulting teeth and leader the ins and outs of commercial training development. Her final corporate role was Director, Product Development of AchieveGlobal which was at the time the largest training company. That was 20 years ago. Today, she has her own consulting firm focused on (you guessed it) helping employees, leaders and organizations grow.

Eight years ago, Julie accomplished a long-held goal and wrote her first book which became a bestseller, Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go: Career Conversations Organizations Need and Employees Want, now out in its second edition. She’s finalizing a contract on her next book which will come out next year.

When she’s not working with clients, writing or speaking, Julie enjoys stand-up paddle boarding, yoga and a variety of philanthropic activities. She has two grown children – as well as a grown dog and husband in South Pasadena, California.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @Julie_WG get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShowClick to Tweet

“People have an appetite for development, and they can find the time to make it happen now.” – Click to Tweet

“Organizations have a really ripe opportunity to strike and to offer the support that people need in order to move forward.” – Click to Tweet

“Career development is only sustainable when it serves both the employee and the organization.” – Click to Tweet

“Finding the intersection between where the employee wants to go and what they want to do and what the organization needs is the sweet spot where development can really happen and serve both.” – Click to Tweet

“What employees truly want in their careers are creative ways to use their skills and talents.” – Click to Tweet

“Stop thinking of career development as a ladder; instead think of it in terms of doing. How can we do differently? What can we do to keep us fresh, engaged, learning, and challenged?” – Click to Tweet

“Really helping people grow means bringing a curious mind to each of our interactions.” – Click to Tweet

“As a leader, you’re just seeing one drop in the ocean of someone’s performance and behavior.” – Click to Tweet

“The quality of feedback boils down to the quality of questions we’re asking.” – Click to Tweet

“When we are developing people, that supports a customer-centric environment as well. There is a direct connection between employee satisfaction and customer satisfaction.” – Click to Tweet

“Career development is one of the top three drivers of engagement.” – Click to Tweet

“Leaders who engage in career development with their folks enjoy 40% greater retention and 25% more productivity.” – Click to Tweet

“Others learn from the life that we lead and the behavior that we demonstrate.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Julie Winkle Giulioni took a role that looked so prestigious. By the end of the first week, she knew she made a dreadful mistake. All of her instincts told her to run for the door, but she didn’t. At that time, she decided that she needed to make a one-year commitment and was going to make the best of that situation. While it didn’t turn out the way that she expected and it didn’t send her down the career trajectory that she dreamt of, what she did do was mind that experience.

It was a rough environment, but she decided each day to look for where the learning was, where could she try one new thing, where she could exercise one new skill, or just get a little bit better at anything. It got her through the year, and it was probably the richest growth experience that she’d had in terms of know the grit that she had and her ability to get through and make the best of it.

Advice for others

Failure isn’t fatal. It’s okay to make a mistake as long as you learn from it.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

Critical, judgmental, little voices in the back of her head.

Best Leadership Advice

Be yourself.

Secret to Success

Kindness and lifting others up is the number one priority.

Best tools in business or life

Mindfulness.

Recommended Reading

Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go: Career Conversations Organizations Need and Employees Want

The Power of Full Engagement: Managing Energy, Not Time, Is the Key to High Performance and Personal Renewal

Contacting Julie Winkle Giulioni

Julie’s website: https://www.juliewinklegiulioni.com/

Julie’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliewinklegiulioni/

Julie’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/Julie_WG

Resources

 

Show Transcript

Click to access unedited transcript

Unedited Transcript

Jim Rembach (00:00):

Okay, fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because we have Sony on the show today. Who’s really going to help us make an impact on something that’s vitally important. And quite frankly, it has been for a long time, but we absolutely need to focus more on now because jobs are getting more complex. Julie Winkle Giulioni is a development evangelist. Who’s passionate about ensuring that everyone has the opportunity to learn and grow to their potential so that they can fully engage in work and life she’s been deeply involved in learning from her first teenage job, teaching modeling and charm to children. She was a high school vocational educational teacher that parlayed that into becoming the department chair and professor of fashion marketing at Woodbury university in Southern California. Julie really wanted to return to industry. So she pivoted from education to learning and development. When she took on a corporate role at Carter Healey Hale and then Alexander and Alexander.

Jim Rembach (01:02):

Now Aidan, when she was recruited to one of her own vendors, zinger Miller, Julie had the opportunity to cut her consulting teeth and leader and lead the ins and outs of commercial training development. Her final corporate role was director of product development for achieve global, which was at the time the largest training company that was 20 years ago today. She has her own consulting firm focused on of course, helping people and employ employees and leaders and organizations to grow eight years ago, Julie accomplished the long-held goal and wrote her first book, which became a bestseller, helped them grow and watch them go career conversations, organizations, need, and employees want. And it’s now in its second edition. And I’m sure because of all the things that we’ve had with Cobra, there’s probably a third edition coming quickly and she’s finalizing a contract on her next book, which will be coming out next year when she’s not working with clients writing or speaking, Jillian joys stand up, paddle boarding, yoga, and a variety of philanthropic philanthropic activities. And she has two grown children as well as a grown dog and a husband and South Pasadena, California, Julie Winkle Giulioni. Are you ready to help us get over the hump?

Jim Rembach (02:21):

I’m glad you’re here now. I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (02:28):

Yeah, it really does boil down to helping people grow the business that I’m in right now, um, offers consulting and training. I do a lot of speaking on the topic and working with organizations to really isolate where the gaps are and how we can lift folks up to be able to reach their potential, contribute more and support organizational objectives in the process.

Jim Rembach (02:51):

Well, I’m one of the things that I think is critically important and you talk about debunking it in the book is how career development has traditionally occurred, uh, how it’s structured, how it’s executed, and you talk about it being a separate event, which it should not be. And you’re talking about it integrating within the work. What do you really mean by that?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (03:10):

Right. Well, I’m, you know, it’s all as a result of very well meaning intentions, but you know, over the years, what was found was folks just weren’t getting the career development attention that they needed. And we know that it links directly to engagement and discretionary effort and all sorts of business results. So it’s in the organization’s best interest to make sure that that folks are being developed and yet variety of reasons that just wasn’t happening. And so many organizations found that the way forward was to programmatize it, to put together processes and systems and paperwork and deadlines. And again, well, meaning to make sure that every employee, at least once a year, got to sit down and have a conversation about their growth problem is as soon as we programatize things, then when a leader goes through that program, if you will, they get to check the box and they’re done with it.

Julie Winkle Giulioni (04:08):

So I’ve talked to so many leaders, you know, asking the question, why do you think you’re not able to deliver the career development people want? And they’re like, wow, what are you talking about? And met the deadline. I filled every cell on that form. I did the career development. Thank you very much. And yet, you know, as I talk with folks around the world, not one person has told me that they’d got to where they are in life and they grew significantly because of boss filled out the form. Well, it’s something different. And so we need to help leaders figure that out.

Jim Rembach (04:43):

Well, even as you say that, I mean, for me, I start thinking about really the, the folks who can actually say or respond to that question. I would dare to say, they’ve gone outside of the system in order to gain their development

Julie Winkle Giulioni (04:58):

In many cases yeah. Or outside of the system or organically within the system. And that’s really the shift that organizations are beginning to embrace. And now it’s such a remote workforce as well. It’s gotta be a much more organic rather than programmatic sort of approach to the growth of folks need.

Jim Rembach (05:19):

Well, I, I mean, I can tell you what you just said, right. There is so vital to, I think quite frankly, all organizations today. Um, cause even they’re talking about as, as we sit here right now and we’re recording this, we’re still in the midst of this pandemic and the recovery from it. And I tell everybody this we’re on a 10 year recovery process. I mean, it’s going to end. And so if you are even thinking about the people who are going to go back to a physical place of work, um, that number is going to be, I think, quite shocking for a lot of folks. And so the remote workforce tell, I mean, telework, you know, you know, congratulations to some of those people who are still gonna, um, you know, commute in those big cities like LA and Los and, uh, Atlanta and all that. Your commute may have just gotten shorter, the career development, passive change and remote workers talking about that distancing. I’m no longer over your shoulder. I’m not getting some of that organic learning, you know, because I’m having, you know, having to talk to people in a break at a break or anything like that saw a lot of that. A lot of that opportunity starts to decline. So the intentionality of developing remote staff has become more vitally important in this whole integrated integration within the work has to happen. So,

Julie Winkle Giulioni (06:35):

So true. In fact, intention was exactly the word that was coming to my mind as you were speaking, here’s a, an interesting point. I did some research as the pandemic began. And what we found was that 75% of employees who responded reported that they had as much time or more time than they did before the, this crisis, um, for development. And so here’s the first thing that we need to acknowledge is that people have an appetite for it and they can find the time to make it happen now. And so organizations have, um, you know, a really ripe opportunity to, to strike and to offer, uh, again, the support that people need in order to move forward versus, you know, not necessarily programs that make that happen. And so when I’m talking about is really enabling leaders at all levels of the organization to have the kinds of conversations, candid conversations that are necessary with employees to figure out where they are, what they love, what they want to do and see how that fits into the future trajectory. Because career development is only sustainable when it serves both the employee and the organization. And so finding the intersection between where I want to go, what I want to do and what the organization needs is a sweet spot where development can really happen in sort of both.

Jim Rembach (08:01):

Well, and for me talking about those impacts and effects, I also think about it from that whole customer impact perspective. I mean, when you start talking about, you know, the types of solutions products and all of that, that people are selling and the complexities of the marketplace, and, you know, the, the access to information often false information, you know, by customers, I mean, interactions are becoming more difficult. So that whole development piece is becoming more critical. And you talk about five myths that are currently in place in regards to mobilizing people from making these advances. And, and these are, I guess, things that we really need to look at are eradicating or minimizing as much as possible. And these five are simply not enough time. Um, if I don’t talk about it, they may not think about it. Um, and then, you know, the status quo is safe, uh, since employees need, uh, there need, the employees need to their own careers. It’s not my job. Uh, every, you know, everyone, uh, you know, that it needs to be bigger, better promotion raises prestige power. And that’s just not the case. Uh, development efforts are best concentrated on high potentials, our hypos, um, and many of our, of them already have plans in place. So when you start talking about these immobilizing myths, what do you need to do in order to make things change

Julie Winkle Giulioni (09:22):

Well, and thanks for asking, because I think this is really the crux of the matter. When we wrote the book and saw the incredible business case associated with development, we really had to ask ourselves why isn’t it happening? Um, you know, cause it looks like a no brainer from the outside. And so as we started interviewing and doing surveys with managers, we were looking for, you know, excuses reasons and you know, those sorts of things. And the more we talk to folks, the more we found that what was getting in the way was, and that’s why we called it an mobilizing myth. And, you know, myth has kind of kernel of something that got it started, but then it, it, it grows out of control, but it doesn’t matter because it was immobilizing leaders from doing the work that they needed to do. And so, um, so the first thing is to debunk these myths myths to really help leaders see, for instance, the myth that everybody’s expecting that bigger and better, the promotion, the raise, the corner office truth is only about 25% of the population here in the United States is looking for that next leap.

Julie Winkle Giulioni (10:34):

What employees told us they wanted more than anything else out of a career conversation with their boss was creative ways to use their skills and talents. And if we can help leaders understand that that’s really what folks are looking for ways to step up. They knew, uh, new directions, new skills to be able to bring, to bear new passions, to be able to pursue if we can help leaders understand that then suddenly career development doesn’t seem so daunting if we can recast what career development looks from a cadence standpoint, you know, right now it’s like an hour or two hours once a year, where you’ve got to go through all this paperwork. It’s, it’s daunting, particularly if you’ve got a huge span of control and you’re trying to do it in a one week period, if we can redefine what career development conversations look like and parse them out and maybe make it 10 minutes a month or five minutes a week, or a moment every day that we can build and layer this joint, understanding upon again, that myth starts to dissipate and disappear.

Jim Rembach (11:43):

So as you’re talking, I mean, I’m even thinking about, uh, just, just this overall, you know, request and requirement you talk about, you know, 25 of people only are interested in going up to that next rung of response ring rung in the ladder of responsibility. But that doesn’t say that, that they don’t want to be developed. I mean, I think that those are two separate things, right? And so more and more people are saying, I want to be developed and it’s not happening.

Julie Winkle Giulioni (12:12):

It’s absolutely true. And the problem that we’ve had traditionally, you know, back in the cradle to grave sort of scenario around employment, where you had kind of one job that took you through your whole life and career is we had this, this vision, this model, this imagery of the corporate ladder and success is about moving up that corporate ladder. And yet the ladder has been rickety and it’s fallen down and isn’t working, hasn’t worked for years. When you look at the downsizing, the right sizing, the boomers, not only living longer, but having the audacity to work longer and occupy spaces, younger folks wanted, um, the nature of work, kind of the organic nature of the way we organize ourselves. And, um, and the gig economy we had, all of this it’s totally toppled the ladder. And yet when people think about career development, that’s our default thinking.

Julie Winkle Giulioni (13:07):

And so that’s one of the biggest shifts that we have the opportunity to make with leaders and employees alike is to stop thinking of it as a ladder, stop thinking about, um, career development as going some place as being something different than you are now. And instead to think in terms of doing, you know, and how can we do differently? What could we invite into the envelope of our current role that keeps us fresh and engaged and learning and challenged. And that then becomes a very doable sort of, um, scenario for leaders, organizations and the employee.

Jim Rembach (13:44):

Well, but are we possibly talking out of both sides of our mouth when you talk about, okay, development’s not happening needs to happening, but then yet less is more so what do you mean by less is more?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (13:55):

Yeah. Yeah. So that was really kind of a provocative comment on our part because organizations have layered more and more and more as we talked about, you know, the processes, the systems, the paperwork, so the deadlines, you know, all of that. And so it’s been built up in the minds of leaders that this is a big deal. You know, this high stakes, it’s gotta be like Christmas, birthday Hanukkah all rolled into one. Cause if we’re only doing one conversation a year, the expectations on the part of employees are pretty great. So the idea of less being more is we can move the needle when it comes to development more effectively by parsing development conversations out by rather than doing it a kind of a one and done cadence to have those small conversations over time to check in with people about they’re doing what they’re interested in, what they’re loving about the work that they’re doing, maybe what they’re not to have those conversations about where the organization is going, what’s happening in our industry. What are the innovations as you were talking about earlier, the innovations that are going to be required to keep us relevant over the long haul and then finding the intersection and small ways that people can start kind of taking a bite out of this elephant, you know, that we think of as career development. So the, the idea of less is more is really just making it more doable on, on bundling it from some of the bigger process work to make it the human endeavor than it is.

Jim Rembach (15:31):

Well, and I think one of the things that you mentioned is critically important because you talk about, you know, the questioning and the inquiry and all of that, and part of that discovery process, and you mentioned an important element, that’s essential to all of this and you refer to the curiosity quotient, you know, what is, and you call it CQ, what is CQ?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (15:50):

Yeah, yeah. So CQ is exactly that, you know, curiosity quotient. So we have, you know, emotional intelligence, we have IQ. Um, but one of the things that really moves the needle with leaders in general, and certainly when it comes to the development of their staff is the, the gift and the infusion of curiosity. You know, so frequently leaders are on a fast track. You know, they’ve got to get things done, they got to do it fast. They got more work to accomplish in a day than, than as humanly possible. And that’s a recipe for baking curiosity out of our relationships in our conversations. And so really helping people grow means bringing a curious mind to each of our interactions. It means recognize that recognizing that the people who are walking through the door today are a little bit different than they were yesterday. And the curiosity associated with learning about them with not pigeonholing folks, which again, is so efficient.

Julie Winkle Giulioni (16:54):

Uh, and yet it, it absolutely undermines our ability to help them grow, um, curiosity to stay abreast of what’s going on, even, you know, in our industry and beyond, because it’s not just about what people want to do and how they want to grow. It’s gotta be relevant for the organization and the industry. It’s gotta be moving this forward. So curiosity about what’s next in terms of our products and our services and the trajectory that that’s going to go. So really being inquisitive, bringing those questions, not having your mind made up already, um, and starting conversations with a bit of a fresh clean slate helps to make sure that, uh, that we’re, uh, surfacing the information that’s needed to be able to help people grow in a relevant fashion.

Jim Rembach (17:46):

Well, and along the lines with the whole curiosity thing, you talk about looking back to move forward. What do you mean by that?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (17:54):

Yeah, so, um, the center piece of our book is really a conversational model that involves hindsight, foresight and insight. Hindsight is what we typically think of when we think about having a career conversation, it’s about helping people look back at what they’ve done, where they’ve been, how they’ve contributed, what they love, what they are interested in doing, maybe what they’re not so interested in doing their values, that whole, you know, kind of repository of, of information about who that person is. Um, and so that’s kind of the backward look and we need that to then be able to cross reference it with that forward look of their foresight. You know, what are the needs of the organization? Where are we going strategically, but even bigger than that, you know, sort of the big picture stuff what’s going on in our world, demographically, economically geopolitically, environmentally that creates kind of the guard rails or defines the sandbox within which relevant career development is happening. I recently read a statistic from the Institute for the future of work, 85% of the jobs we’re going to be doing in the year 20, 30 haven’t yet been invented. And so we need to look backward and inward at where folks are coming from, but we’ve got to look forward as well and balance that and start looking around the corner. So we’re preparing folks to be a relevant contributors when that time comes.

Jim Rembach (19:24):

Well, I think that also aligns with what you were referring to using my existing skills creatively with where I am.

Julie Winkle Giulioni (19:30):

Yes, exactly, exactly. And mining that native intelligence and genius that we’ve got, um, but doing it increasingly in different expanded, uh, ways that, that keep us on the, the leading, not the bleeding edge going forward.

Jim Rembach (19:48):

Well, another thing that you mentioned, that’s kind of filed up is feedback in this whole development process. And I think what it’s often missed is really what it takes in order to be able to properly receive the feedback. And we don’t do a whole lot of development in that area for folks. So they don’t use it in a way that’s constructive and beneficial. We always focus in on the projector or the one who’s giving it. And, but you say it’s as simple as ABC in order to be a better listener and an effective partner in this whole feedback process. What is ABC?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (20:25):

Yeah. Yeah. And just to kind of lay the foundation for that, one of the problems that we found, another kind of myth, if you will, is it so frequently leaders think that they’re the ones who have to be the feedback shares, they’re the ones who have to gather the information, analyze it, communicate it. And so, you know, as we talk about less is more, another strategy is to realize that as a leader, you’re just seeing one drop in the ocean of someone’s performance and behavior. And so, uh, what we really do is to encourage leaders, to distribute this responsibility, to teach individual employees how to go out and gather their own feedback. We know, first of all, that when you ask for feedback, rather than having it foisted upon you, it’s much easier to listen to integrate into use. Um, but also the employees know who has greater visibility to their performance, their work, their strengths, their opportunities, and that kind of thing.

Julie Winkle Giulioni (21:30):

And so as leaders that the shift can be, let’s teach employees how to go take responsibility for their own feedback gathering. And yet most employees, as you said, they’ve never learned how to do this. And so the default way to approach it would be to go out and say, Hey, how am I doing? And a coworker’s going to go, Oh, great. You know, and everything’s good. Um, and so the quality of feedback really boils down to the quality of the questions that we’re asking. And so ADC relates to the kinds of questions and the focus of these conversations. So going out to folks and asking, what are my abilities, what am I good at? You know, what can you always count on me for, what do I deliver on time? And again, the B is for blind spots. Um, and so that’s a tough one, but asking, you know, where do you notice?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (22:25):

I fall down consistently, what do I do when I’m under stress? Could that can frequently be something that gets in our way, and then finally conditions, you know, under what kinds of conditions do you see me thriving and where do you see me struggling more? Well, we start asking those kinds of questions of those around us, whether they be coworkers, employees, customers, suppliers, consultants, the folks who really have visibility to the work that we’re doing. That’s when we get some really meaningful feedback that can be integrated into our thinking, um, and ultimately into our developmental strategies.

Jim Rembach (23:03):

Well, and I’m talking about the, ultimately he’s, you, you mentioned that, uh, we have to create a development culture. And so when, when you and we, and we talk about all kinds of customer centric culture, and we talk about all these different types of cultures we have to build, but really what do you mean by having a development culture?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (23:23):

Well, um, there, we can’t understate the importance of an employee who’s really owning and committed to their development and a leader who’s willing to engage and support those efforts. That partnership is powerful and that alone can move mountains in terms of development, but when the culture comes in and conspires along with that, that’s when you can really see significant shifts in an organization in terms of satisfaction, engagement, effort, and results. And so, as we looked at the cultures that were supporting the kind of development we’re talking about here, it became clear that there were some qualities and characteristics that sort of ran through all of them. Um, one for instance, is there blurry around the boundaries, you know, organizations that have really clearly defined silos and it’s us and them, and we do this and they do that. And there’s a wall in between those organizations struggle a little bit with this kind of more organic development, the organizations where it’s blurry, where there’s a little gray area, where leaders in different departments might be able to share resources, crossover, where if one of my colleagues in another department has an opportunity that could be developmental for my folks, we could actually collaborate on that and exchange some resources that kind of blurriness offers more visibility to the opportunities throughout the organization and more tangible opportunities to expand development.

Julie Winkle Giulioni (25:09):

You know, we don’t have just our little narrow corridor, another quality that we found was having a real passion for results. And again, you know what leader, doesn’t say, I’m passionate about result. I’m all about the results. Um, and yet when you see how they get there, it’s a very micromanagy way of achieving that. When a leader can be passionate about the results, the what, of, what, of where we’re going, but the, how can be a little bit more amorphous and loose that gives people an opportunity to step in, to experiment, to try new things, just stretch themselves and, and experience different skills and opportunities, uh, in a way that leads to the goal, you know, the end result, but when we’ve got room to maneuver around that, so there are some qualities that can build that kind of culture. And what I would suggest Jim, is that when we develop this kind of a developmental culture, it actually supports all of the other cultures. We talk about being important as well. You know, when we are developing people that supports a customer centric environment as well, you know, there’s a direct connection between employee satisfaction and customer satisfaction. And so that kind of commitment to building that developmental culture really supports everything else it’s important to an organization today.

Jim Rembach (26:34):

Well, okay. So we started looking at all these contributing factors associated with, you know, you know, retention of employees, engagement of employees, morale associated with employees, how that pass through happens when you start talking about, you know, them being engaged and customers being engaged, but when you start thinking of degrees and levels of impact, right, I’m all about the numbers. How much does this issue play into those factors? I mean, are we talking most significant somewhat? I mean, where does the fall,

Julie Winkle Giulioni (27:09):

Well, I’m sure you’re not going to be surprised for me to say most significant, uh, over the years, what I’ve really come to, to look at career development as is almost, um, a leader Swiss army knife, because of all the tools and all of the metrics, frankly, that it affects. So we know the career developments, one of the top three drivers of engagement. We know that engagement drives that discretionary effort. You know, people’s willingness to give more time, energy creativity, innovation to the enterprise that discretionary effort translates into all of the things that matter to organizations, whether it’s quality, innovation, customer service, uh, uh, safety retention. You know, you had mentioned that earlier, the research from the corporate leadership council found that leaders who engage in career development with their folks, they enjoy 40% greater retention. That’s a significant number, uh, that same, uh, research found that leaders who engaged in career development also saw 25% greater productivity from their employees. And, uh, and Josh Berson, um, has found that organizations with effective talent management systems see 26% greater sales per employee. So, you know, career development used to be one of those nice to do’s. And I would, I would argue today, it is a vital must do given the way it does impact so much of what’s important, essential to organizations.

Jim Rembach (28:49):

Well, even like you’re talking about, I mean, we have to look at our connectors and the way that we are tethering, um, you know, in a positive way, you know, those employees, because like I said, if more and more of us are becoming remote, the power of proximity is now lost and it’s the power of proximity that often retains people. So now it’s just easier for me to shift from essentially one URL to another URL, because if I start losing that whole organizational identity and all these people that are involved with it, so I would dare to say what we’re going to see over the course of the next couple of years, is this particular issue becoming even more significant

Julie Winkle Giulioni (29:32):

Agreed, agreed. You know, the corollary though that I think is worth considering is that as we move more remotely as center led or, you know, corporate headquarters, uh, become less the locus of focus, I think we’re going to see more of a Democrat taxation. I totally messed up that word, but you know, the Dem becoming more democratic, um, this notion of development and learning and the notion of growth as well, because, you know, you think about it over the last decades. It’s been those folks who were in the corporate office, um, you know, or in the sales office who were there on site, who had the visibility, who got to move up through the organization. And now as we’re all the same size tile on a screen, in many cases, I think we’re going to see an evening of the playing field and maybe offer more, uh, um, development and opportunity across the board to folks, if we’re smart about how we do it,

Jim Rembach (30:36):

That’s a great point, you know, hopefully, um, you know, we won’t have other immobilizing myths, you know, start to be developed as a result of all this. Right. Okay. So, I mean, when you start thinking about all of this and for many of us, you know, the whole development piece becomes quite personal. Uh, it becomes personal from our own. It becomes personal from the connections and relationships that we have with others. And, you know, some will engage in their own development and others won’t, but I think, you know, that that’s yet another issue and probably another book, but we need to really stay focused and have inspiration around all of this. And one of the ways that we do that on the show is to focus on, on quotes, but is there a quote or two that you liked that you can share?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (31:17):

Oh gosh, I’m going to foul it up almost as badly as democratisation, um, that the essence of it is that we teach through the life that we learn others learn from the life that we lead and the behavior that we demonstrate. And I’m so struck, you know, this notion of leading by example, um, as a parent, uh, I know that do, as I say, not as I do just doesn’t, uh, has never played well and it doesn’t offer much in the workplace either. And so the idea of, you know, authentically showing up and knowing that folks are going to follow your example rather than your words, um, really powerful.

Jim Rembach (32:10):

That’s a good point. Well, when I started also thinking about all of this, I mean, we have these mobilizing myths, we have, you know, changes in marketplace. We have, you know, crisis occurs, uh, democratization,

Julie Winkle Giulioni (32:26):

Well done

Jim Rembach (32:28):

Just to make me say aluminum. Right. Um, but yeah, there’s a lot of times where we’ve had those learning moments and we call those humps and we can learn from others and the times where they’ve had to get over those humps, is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (32:44):

Oh man, how long do you have? Um, yeah. You know, um, I don’t have anything jam. Can you edit this out? Nothing’s coming to mind.

Jim Rembach (33:01):

No, we’re going to actually work through it and we’re going to keep it okay. Times where you’ve had, you know, Oh, you know, that was a lesson learned. We’ve all had them. I mean, throughout our lives. Right.

Julie Winkle Giulioni (33:16):

And that immediately comes to mind is, gosh, I was back in my twenties and I took a role that looked so prestigious. I thought I was going to be just the bee’s knees as a result of, of this title, more than anything and stepped into the role. And by the end of the first week, I knew I had made a dreadful mistake. Um, my, all of my instincts just told me to run for the door. And, um, and I didn’t, um, you know, at the time I decided that I needed to make a one year commitment and that I was going to make the best of that situation. And so while it didn’t turn out the way I had expected, and it didn’t send me down the career trajectory that I had, uh, had dreamt of, um, what it did do with mine, that experience.

Julie Winkle Giulioni (34:11):

And I was a tough one. You know, it was a really rough environment. Uh, not very empowering. I felt totally squashed down, but I decided each day to look for where the learning was, where could I try one new thing? Where could I exercise wound new skill, or just get a little better at this or make a connection. And, um, so it got me through the year. It was probably the, the richest, um, growth experience that I’ve had in terms of just knowing the grit that I had and my ability to get through it and make the best of it. And at that one year anniversary, I got the heck out of Dodge.

Jim Rembach (34:48):

Well, good thing for the stick to deafness. Right. And flipping that well. But when I think about, you know, some of the work that you’re doing now, how the whole workplace development, you know, conundrum, you know, has shifted all of these things that are occurring. You’ve had downsizing, you’ve had a lot of, a lot of organizations are flourishing, quite frankly. Um, and in this situation, they have a whole different set of issues when it comes to development. Um, you talk about writing another book, the work overall that you’re doing, I would dare to say that you probably have several goals, but is there one of those that you can share with us?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (35:25):

Yeah. You know, in short term, I think my focus and a goal is really to help employees reframe the current experience that they’re finding them in themselves in and, um, and find a way to mine it for the learning and the growth that’s available. You know, folks are struggling. I don’t need to tell you or anyone listening that, um, it’s, it’s a tough time and it’s easy to feel a little bit beaten down. Um, and numb, uh, has Rico through these days that feel so much like, uh, like the last one. Um, and yet the other side of it is this is a powerful opportunity for individuals to really look within, to figure out what they’re bringing to the party and how they can amp that up in service of, of themselves and the organization. Um, and for them to also look around at the, the rich opportunities that exist in the business landscape and in the workplace to be able to step up. So one of the areas I’m really focusing in on is how can we use this time productively to advance, you know, our contributions and our growth in the process

Jim Rembach (36:39):

And the fast leader, Legion wishes you the very best. Now, before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic and employee engagement. Along with integrated activities. They want to improve employee engagement and leadership skills and everyone using this award winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers to learn more about an even better place to work visit [inaudible] dot com forward slash better. Alright, here we go. Fast leader Legion. It’s time for the home. Oh, okay. Julie, the hump they hold on as the part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust, yet rapid responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Julie Winkle, Giulioni. Are you ready to hold down? Ready? Alright. So what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (37:36):

Oh, critical judgmental, a little voice in the back of my head.

Jim Rembach (37:41):

And what is the best leadership advice you have ever received for yourself? And what would be one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

Julie Winkle Giulioni (37:52):

Kindness and lifting others up is the number one priority.

Jim Rembach (37:57):

And what would be one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life

Julie Winkle Giulioni (38:02):

Mindfulness

Jim Rembach (38:04):

And what would be one book you’d recommend to our Legion? It could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to help them grow some, go on your show notes,

Julie Winkle Giulioni (38:14):

Uh, the power of full engagement.

Jim Rembach (38:17):

Okay. Fast, literally, Jen, you can find links to that. And other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/julie-winkle-giulioni. Okay. Julie is my last tempo. Hold on question. Imagine you’ve been given that opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why

Speaker 3 (38:49):

Failure? Isn’t fatal? You know, it’s okay to make a mistake to roll around in it, to really foul things up sometimes. Um, as long as you learn from it and advance in the process,

Jim Rembach (39:06):

Julie, I had fun with you today. Can you please share with the fast leader Legion, how they can connect with you?

Speaker 3 (39:09):

You bet. And I had a blast. Thank you so much, Jim I’m can be reached at my website, JulieWinkleGiulioni.com. And there are lots of resources and articles and videos and that kind of thing. There I’d look to connect with your listeners,

Jim Rembach (39:24):

Julie Winkle, Giulioni. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader, Legion honors you, and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

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