Unedited Transcript

Jim Rembach (00:00):

Okay, fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because we have somebody on the show today. Who’s going to give us some, some insights into why focusing on customer service can make such a big difference for your organization. Ryan Coon was born and raised in a town called Lake Zurich in the far Northwest suburbs of Chicago. He is the eldest of three children and growing up, both of Ryan’s parents were involved in family businesses. So he was exposed to the ups and downs of entrepreneur entrepreneurship and the real estate from a very early age. Growing up, Ryan could be found playing sports, watching the 1990s bowls and trading and selling basketball cards. During the lunch hour, given his experience around small businesses. Growing up, Ryan knew that he wanted to study accounting and finance during college. So he applied to one of the top undergraduate programs in the Midwest at the university of Illinois after college, Ryan wanted to get real world professional experience, but always knew he would end up owning his own business at some point.

Jim Rembach (01:00):

And he was an investment banker banking associate at BMO capital markets. And he left this high paying job to travel, learn to code and launch a tech startup that solves the need of a previously left out market. The do it yourself. Landlord, Ryan has a hardworking spirit and together with his co-founder Lawrence, Janklow developed the idea for their company of bail on a napkin that now solves the needs of thousands of landlords and renters renters. Today. They hope to leave a legacy of improving lives for both landlords and renters. Ryan continues to live in Chicago with his wife, Nikki, and they just celebrated their one year anniversary. Ryan Coon, are you ready to help us get over the hump? I am.

Ryan Coon (01:44):

Thanks so much for having me, Jim, really excited to be talking with you too.

Jim Rembach (01:48):

I know it’s going to be a really good discussion, but I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better? Yeah,

Ryan Coon (01:56):

Well, yeah, I’m spending all of my time and effort really focused on building avail. The tech startup that Lawrence nice started about five years ago,

Jim Rembach (02:06):

Focused on how do we just build the product and really expand the customer experience, improve the experience for thousands of landlords and renters that use our product today and hopefully thousands more that will find us over the night, over the coming years. Well, and when you talk about experience to me, and this discussion that we had prior to our interview is that that’s really how you came about to, you know, this problem to solve for. And so if you can’t explain the problem, you know, and where the whole experience comes into play. Yeah, of course. And so

Ryan Coon (02:39):

It States there’s about 48 million residential

Jim Rembach (02:42):

Rental housing properties. About half of those units are institutionally owned. They’re professionally managed. They’ve been using software for a long time. The other half of the rental properties here in the country are actually owned by men and women like us, people who are busy, full

Ryan Coon (03:00):

Time professionals, they own properties on the side, either as a way to build passive income or really to save money for retirement. And so Lauren’s my co founder and I previously were these people, we fit this profile. We were busy people working here in Chicago for large banks. We had both separately invested in real estate during Oh eight Oh nine when the market kind of took a downturn. And what we found is that we were managing our properties ourselves with a combination of spreadsheets, pen and paper, paper checks, text messages, phone calls, smoke signals, like you name it. We had duct tape it together and eventually started thinking, you know, this is causing me to spend unnecessary time on my units. And more importantly, it’s trickling down and causing a poor experience for the renters who were actually living in our properties. So we eventually started looking for software that would help improve this.

Ryan Coon (03:58):

And what we found is that no one had built it, no one, everyone had ignored the men and women like us who fit this profile. And so when we saw that need in the market, we saw really an opportunity to improve the lives of these landlords, like us and the renters living in their units. And so we decided to leave our full time jobs. We spent a couple of years learning how to code, so taught ourselves Ruby on rails in order to launch the business that is now available. And as you’re talking and you talk about that whole experience and the experience that you were having and the whole solve for problem. I mean, for me, from the very get go, you, you have taken that whole customer centric element and you even put it into your first hire. If you could tell us about that, that’d be, I think that’d be great.

Ryan Coon (04:48):

Yeah, for sure. So along the way, I mean, Lawrence and I we’ve done every part of the business. We S we started, we built the product we learned to code. We did that. We then learn digital marketing. So from the ground up, had to learn, learn that, build that muscle. And then once we started getting customers, we Lawrence and I were the ones they’re handling the customer support tickets, the emails, the phone calls. I remember being in my car, driving West out on 90, going out to my folks’ place and getting a call. I’m taking those customer support calls while driving down the highway. Um, and what we eventually found is that Lawrence NY, we were the founders. We had built this company. And one of the areas that we were failing at unfortunately, was delivering top tier high quality customer support. And when you’re dealing with a landlord, I mean, the rental property is their small business.

Ryan Coon (05:45):

And the renter living in that property is their customer. And so it’s incumbent on us as a service provider to provide that top tier support and service. And so when Lawrence and I recognized that we were failing, unfortunately we decided to go out our very first hire that we brought onto the team, very unconventional for a tech product company to make a customer service person, their first hire. But that’s what we did in five and a half years ago. Our very first hire was this woman, Christine. She is still with us today. She’s unbelievable. And she now leads one of the most important teams here at the company.

Jim Rembach (06:26):

Well, and as you’re talking about Christine, and I start thinking about, you know, venture capital funding, and, you know, you talk about VC funding. Um, talk about, you know, doing a tech startup. I mean, I’ve worked with a couple of tech startups, and for me, oftentimes they’re very heavily focused on the whole marketing thing,

Ryan Coon (06:41):

Sales element of, of what they do

Jim Rembach (06:43):

I have, but it’s the whole client success piece customer success piece where they’re, they’re just lost about. And oftentimes when you think about investors, they don’t necessarily think about that either, but it’s the stickiness and the renewals, which when you start thinking about over the long haul, really make the significant value generation that a startup needs. Is that correct? Oh, absolutely.

Ryan Coon (07:07):

Yeah. I mean, if you look at a bucket and you can keep pouring water in the top of the bucket, but if you’ve got leaks and if the water is just leaking out the bucket, I mean, the bucket’s not going to get very full. And so what we’ve done is we’ve really tried to use customer service, customer support first and foremost, to improve the customer experience, deliver the value that we promise, but then also you’re right. It starts plugging. Those leaks starts making the bucket so that we can start filling it up and growing the value of the company over time.

Jim Rembach (07:42):

That leads me to the question. If you start talking about this thing, that three legged stool, you know, marketing sales, client success, or retention or customer support, when you start thinking about value of your organization, how significant

Ryan Coon (07:56):

As customer work bent your overall market value? Oh, it’s huge. I mean, I look at our team, um, unfortunately today with COVID, everyone’s working remotely, but I’m here in our office today. When I look out at our team and our office here by far, the biggest team here at the company is customer support. I mean, we, we really rely heavily on having, you know, Americans having humans here in Chicago, in our office who are really unable to answer emails, support, um, customer, customer, phone calls, live chat, and it’s really about delivering that top tier customer experience. And that’s really how we’ve as a company, differentiated ourselves from a lot of other software products out there in the market.

Jim Rembach (08:44):

So if you talk about other products in the market and you talk about that whole competitive analysis and competitive differentiation and that separation component, you know, you’ve mentioned some things that a of people, you know, may not, um, you know, perceive that there is big impact on you talked about, you know, they’re all badged or they’re all owned, they’re all employed by the company. So there’s the outsourcing thing. Um, you talked about it being in Chicago, you know, where there’s, you know, essentially a higher pay scale because I’m in a major Metro. I mean, it’s all these factors. And so to justify that, especially when you’re starting to look at it from a, you know, an investor looking at you, how difficult is it to just,

Ryan Coon (09:26):

Well, I think it, it, it’s one of those. And you mentioned that it’s for us a big differentiator because people could, I mean, we do have landlords and renters who say maybe they use a product like, uh, a quick pay or another online payment service. Well, good luck contacting them. If something goes wrong, I mean, good luck finding a phone number. Um, we put, we put the phone number for our company on every page of our site. We encourage people to reach out and call us. And I think that if you go online and you read any of the reviews on our product anywhere, one of the things that people say through and through is how good and how responsive our support team. And I know as a consumer, I’m extremely loyal to some of those brands and companies that deliver that high quality customer support. So I think it’s extremely important for us as a company and really for any company in today’s day and age, a lot of people can build a beautiful product, but really delivering that top tier experience is what it’s all about.

Jim Rembach (10:36):

Well, I think you also differentiated because you, as a founder was hand or, you know, you were handling that support for a long time. And so if I think about founders tech founders, you know, I start getting in thinking about those that actually could actually do that. Um, you know, and do you think that that is a possible detriment to the whole customer centricity of the organization because you even, you know, even talked about off Mike, that that’s one of your core values, right? So do you think others are at risk because that may not be a Corvette?

Ryan Coon (11:09):

Yeah, no, I think it’s, it’s something, I mean, being here in the Midwest, being based in Chicago, we we’ve never had access to like millions and millions and millions of dollars of venture capital, like other, other people would on the coast. And so almost out of necessity, what that focused us and what it forced us to do was really embrace every part of the business, learn it from the inside out as we were getting the company off the ground. And so customer support from day one was something that Lawrence and I were doing. Um, and I think it, it has given us a new appreciation for ultimately the customers that we serve. Um, given, given how important we, we really view it. I can say one of the things that I think also separates us and is a little bit unique about the way that we handle customer support is I mentioned that team that sits over here 20 feet behind me, but we also, in addition to having a full time team of staff, people on that team, we also take rotational shifts among every single person in the company.

Ryan Coon (12:20):

So, um, everyone on the company you’re assigned a week, maybe once every three or four months, you have a week and each week that you’re on customer support, you’re expected to do an hour in the morning, an hour in the evening of customer support. That’s in addition to your full time job. And we make that very clear when we hire people that that’s the expectation and you’re, you’re required to be there in Zendesk, responding to tickets, answering phone calls. Um, and I think that just really illustrates. And I can say one of the things that, that I find the most rewarding is when maybe it’s someone on our marketing team or someone on our product team and they get off their week of customer support and they sit there and they’re like, wow, I heard I heard feedback. Or I heard something that I want to start working on an improving right now, whether it’s with the marketing or their product. So I think having customer support is part of what we do really almost elevates everyone else’s ability to do their job better.

Jim Rembach (13:26):

Well, as you say that, I start, I start thinking about, um, the whole proximity issue, even where we are now, uh, and getting too far away from the customer, you know, can, can make things very difficult. And when you think about customer centricity, there’s also one person that you shouldn’t Trump and that is the customer. Uh, and so a lot of times when you start thinking about the other side of that, you know, it’s a fine line. So here’s what I mean by that. Um, our perspective internally when we know the business and when we know the organization and in itself has a bias to it, you know, we know more than they know, as far as our inner workings and operations. And so one of the things that I see a lot of people will say that causes some problems is they’ll say, well, I know I wouldn’t like that when they’re internal. And the fact is that they’re not the customer, right? So do you oftentimes have internally because you do have people that are on the call and doing all that, uh, taking calls, um, do you find yourself having to battle people thinking their own perception and their own thinking is really what the customers want?

Ryan Coon (14:34):

Yeah, absolutely. And I can give you, give you a very clear example of that that happened just this week, where, um, one of, one of the features that we offer here at avail is the ability for a landlord to come onto the avail website or, or from their phone. And they can create a listing for their vacant rental unit. And we will send that listing out to 12 of the top sites that renters are searching for. Now, one of those sites that we work with has said, Hey, you’re still allowed to do this. We’re just going to charge you a little bit for that listing previously, it was completely free. And what would happen is people on our design team would say, Hey, customers are going to hate this. They’re going to revolt there. They’re annoyed. They’re, they’re mad about this new, this new program, this new process.

Ryan Coon (15:32):

And what we found is I walked over, I talked to Christine and people on her team, and what she was hearing from the customers is no, they actually don’t mind paying. They get value. It’s just, it’s not being clearly communicated. So we, that that’s one, one really clear example where I think some people on our design team said, Hey, this is never going to work. If we put a price tag on this, but the customers are saying, I don’t mind paying it. And so that’s one of those examples where that bias can come in and you’re so much better actually talking to the customer and getting their input on whatever the issue is that you’re, that the audience is encountering in their business,

Jim Rembach (16:17):

A great lesson learned. And I think for me, that’s exactly what we need to do is sometimes we just need to test and we need to ask, cause you know, it may not be what we see is the truth. Okay. So when I start thinking about, um, you know, solving this particular problem, looking at, you know, the, the, the market, you know, and we talked about the commercial aspects, uh, and then we talked about, you know, the, the individual or smaller owner aspects. I mean, are you, are you limited in your market size?

Ryan Coon (16:48):

Well, I think this is one of those really interesting, uh, debates topics that we talk about all the time and there, believe it or not, there actually is a difference in customer mindset when you’re managing more than 10, more than 20, more than 50 rental units. It’s much more of a business and you’re much more in that like investor mindset. But if you’re an individual, if it’s you or me who we’re, we’re busy, full time professionals, we’re entrepreneurs, we’re out there running small businesses. We own a couple of rentals on the side. I think about those rental properties, very different because I own them. My name is on the mortgage and versus someone who’s sitting in an office and maybe they’re like five layers removed from actually engaging with the renter. I know my renters names, I know who they are. I know them personally, whereas that person who owns that bigger portfolio.

Ryan Coon (17:49):

So back to your question, that that difference in mindset does change and does drive a lot of the different decisions that we make. And we know exactly who our target is. Our target are those 8 million individuals in the U S big number, big market, but we’re, we’re only focused on half of the market where it’s this half that owns properties on the side, in addition to a full time job today, we’re not, not focused on that big commercial institutional owner. They’re a different customer profile that we’re frankly not prepared to serve today. Sure. So it’s, so for me, you’re serving the small, you know, small businessman, a man or woman who has the property. And I, and I get that into, so when you start talking about half of that market and go and targeting the half of that market, that’s where I was meeting as far as a limitation on your market.

Ryan Coon (18:47):

So, I mean, so do you think you can fully saturate that market and essentially own that market? And then if you do, where do you go then? Yeah, that, I mean, that’s our goal. There’s these 8 million individuals in the U S who own properties on the side today, there’s about 200,000 that use the avail product across the country to manage single family homes, condo, small multifamily properties. Um, I mean that means we’ve got 7.8 million landlords out there who we would love to still still service. Um, if, and when we ever get anywhere close to that number, I think what we ultimately do at that point is we just say, you know, beyond the service, beyond the features that we offer today, how else can we help? What other, what other products, what other services, like we know these customers intimately, we know how they, they think about their properties after all, we do eat our own dog food, we use our own product. Um, and so it’s all about, okay, how else can we expand this relationship? So you’ve got a long way to go.

Ryan Coon (19:54):

I think that’s fantastic. Okay. So now with that big opportunity, and just talking to you, obviously there’s a lot of passion associated with what you do. And when I start thinking about that, one of the things that we look at on the show for passion and inspiration or quotes, is there a quote or two that you like that you can share? Yeah, I mean, I think about one of my favorite quotes is I believe the Wayne Gretzky quote about you’ll always miss a hundred percent of the shots that you don’t take. And I think that gets back to what we were talking about earlier, where it’s about testing and trying and putting herself out there and trying new things and experimenting and seeing what works and seeing what doesn’t resonate with the customer. Um, that that’s definitely one of my favorite quotes. I also spend a lot of time just thinking more broadly about delivering back value and more around, I haven’t found a perfect quote on this, but really the style of leadership that I’ve adopted is more of a servant mentality where it’s all about serving the customer and me as the leader of the organizations serving all of our 33 employees here at the company.

Jim Rembach (21:06):

Well, however, if we don’t get to that path and continue to capitalize on that rest of that open market without, you know, going through some of the testing and in the innovation and the creative thinking and making mistakes. And one of the things that we talk about on the show is getting over the hump because then when we waste those times, when we’ve had that, you know, lesson learned, you know, and we have to pivot, you know, is there a time where you’ve gotten over a hump that you can share?

Ryan Coon (21:31):

Yeah. The, the obstacle or the, that hump that I oftentimes think about was actually that decision of what we were just talking about, where it’s, which part of the market do we want to focus on. And there was, I mean, a monumental divide here at the company. I mean, there was half the people in one camp, half in the other, and we didn’t like, we didn’t like each other. I mean, it was, it was really divided. It was, um, not, I mean, it was as divided as you can imagine. And so really, as the leader, it was a challenge trying to figure out, okay, how do we get through this? Because the company almost came to a standstill, as we were thinking about, do we target those bigger owners and customers that, you know, we can, we can target them. That’s a traditional B2B sale they’re listed in the yellow pages. We can go out and we can call them, or do we focus more on the landlords, like us who are busy professionals, part-time landlords, it’s a much more fragmented market. Um, we have to employ different techniques for finding those people through digital marketing. And there’s been a lot of companies that have tried this and have failed. And so, which of those pallets do we go company ground to a halt? That was our biggest obstacle here in the five and a half years since we launched the company.

Jim Rembach (23:02):

Okay. So, I mean, you open the door, you have to tell me, how did you get to the path that you’re on?

Ryan Coon (23:08):

Yeah. I mean, the way that we got there and it took a little bit of time, what we ended up doing is first and foremost, going back to the customer centricity, we went out and we actually talked with customers and we interviewed them and we got so much input about the value that we were delivering. We got input on how did these people perceive us as a company? How do they treat our employees? And we started just getting more and more feedback from the customer feedback, from investors feedback, from, you know, friends, family. I mean, we talked with anyone and everyone who would listen about this. Um, that was, that was the biggest. And then we took that feedback. Lauren’s my cofounder. And I did. And we sat there and we, we internalized it. And we, we really looked at ourselves and we said, how, like, why did we start this company?

Ryan Coon (24:04):

What’s the problem that we’re trying to solve? And the inside baseball is that Lawrence and I were, were, I mean, we were co-founders, we’ve been friends for almost 20 years. We were, we were ultimately divided. So it was almost like you had mom and dad at the top of the pyramid, like sparring over this. And so it was a really contentious time. And what Lawrence and I did is we sat there, we looked at feedback and we ultimately said, look, the one thing that we can agree on is whether we, um, whether it goes your way or my way, we’re, we’re ultimately we can disagree. But as soon as we walk out of this room, we’re going through commit. And we’re both like, whoever’s where it goes, is not viewed as the wrong one, the loser in the argument, we have to go out in front of our team, in front of our investors, in front of our customers and be alignment. And we have to be fully committed going full steam ahead. And so that’s ultimately kind of how we got through that period. Um, I’m glad that we went through that. Um, there’ve been plenty of other disagreements, the, the, I mean, as any good relationship, good founder marriage you’ll have, but, um, one of those periods that we went through and, um, I’m appreciative that we did

Jim Rembach (25:28):

Well when I start thinking about that. Oh, I’m sure that foundation also helps for other obstacles that you’re going to, you’re going to get through, um, because it, you know, it ended up being a positive outcome, ultimately that you were able to connect, you know, and commit to. But I start thinking about that market opportunity. I start thinking about where you are now. And I start thinking about a whole ton of goals that you may have, but is there one year

Ryan Coon (25:52):

Share with us? Yeah, the, the one goal that we have right now is really to, I mean, almost be better at serving our customers. I mean, like any product, we do have people who will churn and they will leave our product. And one of our key objectives for the year, one of our main goals for the year is to bring that percentage down. So it’s really about focusing, you know, at the top of the funnel, are we getting the best people who are the best fit for our product because ultimately marketing can, can have an impact on that churn rate. And then once we get those ideal customers at the top of the funnel, how do we give them a product experience they love and how do we wow. The customer, and then how do we close that loop? And how do we, I mean, almost through product marketing, reiterate back to the customer that how much value that they are getting out of our product. So implementing things like a monthly recap where, you know, people can, can look at how much time or how much money that they’ve saved by using our product. So that’s kind of main objective number one for all of 2020. And I’m happy to say that we’re having a lot of success plugging some of those leaks in that bucket and the fast leader, Legion wishes you the very best. Now, before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. And even better

Speaker 3 (27:28):

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Ryan Coon (27:56):

They hold on as a part of our show where you

Speaker 3 (27:58):

Give us good insights fast. So I’m gonna ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust

Ryan Coon (28:03):

Responses that are going to help us move onward and upward faster.

Speaker 3 (28:06):

Coon, are you ready to hold down? Let’s do it. Alright. So what is holding you back from being in

Ryan Coon (28:11):

Even better leader today? Biggest thing holding me back is definitely my desire for control and my almost fear or, or trouble that I have delegating different tasks or different responsibilities. And what is the best leadership advice you have ever received? Best leadership advice is definitely around focusing my time and my effort on helping our employees learn, grow, and develop. And if I help each person on our team learn and grow and develop, they’ll deliver a better and better experience for our customers. And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success? As strange as this may sound, it is stubbornness. So I think it’s, um, it goes back to number one. I think it’s, it’s one of those just, I, I won’t give up. And one of our other core values is around persistence and it’s, it’s an acknowledgement that even if things aren’t working today, being stubborn and knowing that we can make them work eventually. And what do you feel is one of your best tools to helps you lead in business or life feels strange to refer to a person as a tool, but I would say my cofounder, my cofounder is a good friend, and I think that starting a business, starting this company in particular without Lawrence would be really difficult. And in a lot of ways, uh, having cofounder a business partner like him, uh, just makes business and life better.

Jim Rembach (29:48):

What would be one book you’d recommend to our Legion? And it could be from any,

Ryan Coon (29:53):

Um, I mean on the topic of customer experience, customer support, customer happiness by far, one of my favorite books is delivering happiness. It’s the Tony Shay story of building Zappos. We’ve borrowed so many themes and so many ideas and topics from that book. Um, I think it’s really well written about putting the customer experience first and foremost. Okay.

Jim Rembach (30:16):

That’s their Legion. You can find links to that. And another bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader dot

Ryan Coon (30:21):

Nits slash Ryan Kuhn. Let me do that again. Gosh, I drew a blank on your name for a second.

Jim Rembach (30:30):

Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that. And other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/ryan Coon. Okay, Ryan, this is my last hub

Ryan Coon (30:38):

Question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. So you can take back one, just one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? Well, I think the one piece of, of experience or knowledge that I would take back with me, um, I think like any good entrepreneur, I consider myself somewhat paranoid. So I’ll be sitting, I mean, day and night, I wake up in the middle of the night. I look at our dashboard around new customers, new revenue, new, new kind of engagement with our product. Um, I think the thing that I would take back to my 25 year old self is the idea of worrying about things that are within your control and acknowledging and accepting things outside of your control. So I find myself also sometimes even still today, worrying about things that I have zero control over. Um, and, and I think it’s really important to focus only your time, effort and stress on things that are within your power to change and control.

Jim Rembach (31:48):

Brian. I had fun with you today. Can you please share with the fast leader Legion, how they can come?

Ryan Coon (31:52):

Yeah, they can connect with me. My, my email is Ryan R Y a N at avail a V AI out that CEO. I’m also on social media. So on LinkedIn, probably the most active Ryan Coon or on Twitter at hello avail. Ryan,

Jim Rembach (32:09):

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom, the fast leader Legion honors you. And thank you. Thanks you for helping us get over the hump.