How to Hire for Contact Center Fit

As a contact center, are you aware if you are high volume hiring or not? Most importantly, do you hire for contact center fit? Hiring large volumes of employees can be a cumbersome task and it can be costly. It is even more costly if you do not have the right tools and insights to hire people who are the best fit for the job.

Daniel ash of Journey Front in this interview highlights how they help contact centers hire for contact center fit. In turn, this helps to save time and resources. With time you begin to understand what exactly is the best fit for your contact center using the information provided by Journey Front evaluation software. I managed to have a brief chat with Daniel Ash at the Contact Center Week in Nashville.

Here is an edited script of the conversation I had with Daniel Ash

Jim Rembach: Hey this is Jim with Call Center Coach and the Fast Leader Show and I’m here with Daniel Ash from CCW Nashville. Daniel, how do you help folks get over the hump?

What Does Journey Front’s Evaluation Software do?

Daniel Ash: Yes, Journey Front is a can evaluation software that specializes in high volume hiring. So our focus is really helping companies with high volume roles like call center sales organizations use data to predict candidate performance and retention before you hire them.

Jim Rembach: Well, you say high volume though I mean you have to kind of put perspective around some of that right? Then and also talk about your data source and where you are pulling this information in order to be able to determine who is and who isn’t the right candidate. So when you say high volume what does it really mean.

What is High Volume Hiring?

Daniel Ash: Yeah, so obviously Amazon’s high volume hiring of course but there’s also a lot of other companies don’t realize it that are doing high volume.  Typically for us, that means if you have good forty-fifty employees in a given role and your hiring at least fifteen to twenty that’s what we would call high volume hiring. You’re hiring for the same role over and over again and you have an advantage that there’s enough data there to extract insight. And how we’re extracting that insight is we have various ways namely, it’s assessment data and interview data.

We can use assessment data behavioral assessments run with analytics on a company’s own turnover and performance data that will identify the optimal profile of somebody that stays, that succeeds in that unique position, in that unique environment. And we can do the same thing with interview data crafting interview questions that will predict candidate retention and performance.

Jim Rembach: I would also think as you’re talking that, this isn’t an immediate thing. So it’s kind of overtime what we do is get better at the model because our data sets are getting a little bit larger. Would that be correct?

Using Your Data to Hire for Contact Center fit

Daniel Ash: Ahh it is correct that it will, that, it gets better and better over time. But if you’re already sitting on a data set of that size, for example, using our assessment module we can actually create a profile from your existing employee database that identifies patterns around turnover performance. They can actually move the needle within the first round of hiring. And because in a lot of these call center jobs, for example, you have these painful occurrences of people not even making it to train, past training or turning over the first two or three months. It can move the needle within the first few months to raising those rates of retention schedule here and people actually make it to training etcetera.

Jim Rembach: Well for me I could think of a lot of reasons and outcomes from a supervisor’s perspective but from what you’re experiencing with your clients, how are you making the supervisor’s job a lot easier?

Advantages of Using Journey Front Evaluation Software to Hire

Daniel Ash: Yes, so supervisors have a very tough job. They’re working with a lot of different types of people. They’re dealing with constantly having to retrain, rehire, train new people. So the biggest impact we can have is getting you more people that will actually stay. Let’s start there and then have the profile that makes them more likely to just handle that type of environment.

So the structure of the very metrics-driven nature of the role that’s not for everyone and supervisors waste a lot of their time trying to just push people up into that role that are in a fit for, to begin with. So we can help them use data very quickly to get more people in the door that for whom it’s not like swimming against the current their natural traits make them more likely to be satisfied in this role to be able to handle the structure and the pace of that the environment.

Jim Rembach: So Daniel how to folks learn more?

Daniel Ash: Yeah, so to learn more visit www dot journey front dot com. You can also email me, Daniel, at journey front dot com or sales at journey front dot com. We got a lot of case studies. We can send more of other call centers were working with, where we’ve been able to see dramatic improvements to turn over within the first year as well as new higher performance.

Jim Rembach: Daniel thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom and we wish you the very best.

Daniel Ash: Thank you very much.


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What is AI-Powered Contact Center CRM software?

There are several tools that can make your contact center more effective and efficient, but you probably have not considered putting CRM on the list, until now.

With an AI-powered contact center CRM software from TrendzAct, you could finally have an effective solution that can increase your contact center performance, instead of encumbering it. Thanks to Matt Gabrielson, TrendzAct President, for sharing his insight at Contact Center Week.

Here is an edited transcript of my interview with Matt:

Jim Rembach: Hey, this is Jim of Call Center Coach and the Fast Leader Show and I’m here with Mark Gabrielson from Trendzact.

Matt Gabrielson:  And that’s TrendzAct with a Z.

Jim Rembach: Matt, How do you help folks get over the hump?

How AI-Powered Contact Center CRM Software Improves Agent Performance

Matt Gabrielson: We focus our CRM on just contact centers. So instead of a broad-based CRM that handles all of the organization, from marketing to legal, we focus just on the agent to consumer interaction. So the agents only have to see the information that they need. So that’s what’s really important is that, those interactions, those opportunities to make a difference. We don’t have clutter. 

We also use artificial intelligence. So one of the unique things about contact centers is being able to have that agent who might be either new, two weeks into it, or ninety days or even two years having the same experience.

So we have a recommendation engine, using artificial intelligence with AWS that will give that agent the scripting they need, the knowledge base, all the different and pertinent information, so they know exactly what they need at the right time within that CRM. 

So we focus on just that agent interaction, so that’s solid.        

Jim Rembach: I think what you are actually unveiling here is a critical component, and important part is that a lot of customer service and contact center environments are really handcuffed by the CRM that they have to use. Because other parts of the business either use them first or hey, they are considered to be more important because hey, they are the revenue gen group right?

Matt Gabrielson: That is absolutely true. And so whenever we can plug into the legacy systems, so you don’t have to strip out the whole organization. But part of that is that we focus just on that agent interaction so whenever you get a custom solution for that agent experience to make sure that customer is happy and they have a good net promoter score and we also reduced handle time.

Because we gotta keep costs down so keeping costs down and giving those recommendations and sharing with the agents what they should say to the customer, it really keeps it consistent and makes sure you have a good NPS.

Jim Rembach: Well, I think, but for me, your sourcing is the important part here because a lot of organizations can claim to do what you just said from an AI perspective, from maybe even a process automation perspective. However, they have an issue possibly and often do with the whole source data. You’re cleaning up that problem. It’s really actually where your legacy and roots came from, is on the CRM side.

Improving Data Representation

Matt Gabrielson: It is. So, one of our goals that we could pull data from either external data lakes from several different sources and be able to take the artificial intelligence engine to build out that model so that we’re presenting data to the agent or to the customer through the webchat, that it is actually good data.

It is cleansed data. Whether it’s five data points or three data points, you’re going to get a good solid recommendation using the AWS recommend engine.

Jim Rembach: Okay, so Matt, tell us how to make the frontline supervisors job easier in all of this?

Good Data Hygiene Improves Supervisor Performance.

Matt Gabrielson: Yeah, so the first thing is, by having the good data hygiene and having the recommendations, then all we’re looking for is not the normal right, because then everybody is doing it the right way.

We’re using our anomaly detection using an AWS anomaly detection to be able to identify where are our falling stars, where the ones that we need to have some coaching with, or which customers should we reach out to because we know they had a bad experience.

So using sentiment analysis, we can identify where they should do some outreach where they should do some coaching. So the first thing is making the agent have a great experience and be engaged. The second part is for those supervisors, giving that real-time alerts so that within the thirty to forty-five seconds of the end of that conversation or that engagement, then they can immediately go take that agent and discuss the opportunity with them.

Because being an agent is tough work. And at the end of the day, can you really hear the sentiment from that agent as a supervisor, because they get jaded at the end of eight hours. The system doesn’t care if it’s eight or twelve hours into it. So the anomaly detection real-time alerts make a huge difference for the supervisors and, of course, the executives that it rolls up. They want to know that they consistently having a good experience with their interactions.

Jim Rembach: So, Matt, how folks learn more?

Matt Gabrielson: Well, you mentioned it’s TrendzAct with a Z. So it’s tranzact.com spelled with a Z.

Jim Rembach: Matt, thanks for sharing your knowledge and wisdom and we wish you the very best.


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How to Make a Big Difference in Contact Centers

How to Make a Big Difference in Contact Centers

Meeting with Nate Brown from United Laboratories at ICMI’s Contact Center Expo was absolutely a thrill. Especially catching up with him after being the MC of the ICMI Global Contact Center Awards

During our interview Nate shared some important current and future insights into the contact center industry and how you can make an impact. And leave a legacy that positively impacts the entire contact center community.

Here is an edited transcript of our interview:

Jim Rembach: Hey this is Jim with Call Center Coach and I’m here with one of our board members Nate Brown of United Laboratories. Now, Nate and you just had the opportunity to MC the 2018 Contact Center Expo Awards what did that feel like?

Nate Brown: That was such a high. I’m just so excited right now. It was awesome to see Todd Hixson win the Lifetime Achievement Award.  I love this show a love ICMI. That was absolutely a blast.

Jim Rembach: Well okay, for you when you start thinking about impact on the industry. I mean you’re making a big one right now. With the things that you’re doing with the CX Accelerator, trying to get people to think beyond the contact center while still keeping a hold of and helping people do a better job of delivering better service in the contact center. But when you start thinking about pulling all these things together as far as influencer, practitioner, all those things where you kind of feel you’re getting a lot of thrills right now.

Nate Brown: Right now, it’s just about good quality content. Like I feel I feel like a couple years ago I was kind of wrapped up in how much exposure can I get in and can I get this just out in front of the maximum number of people. And now my mentality is like, how can we have a good solid legacy. How can we make a difference in a quality way. And in this whole community with CX Accelerator we’re not trying to get a million people in there. We’re trying to get the people that want to be there to have a good robust quality dialogue around CX. And it’s going to change the way I thought about everything that I’m doing. I want to do things that are going to make a difference for a handful of people and that’s great. That’s what I want to do.

Jim Rembach: Okay so, I want to focus on one thing a little bit is that. I know I’ve done a lot of studying around creative thinking and innovation and things like that. When I when I start thinking about creative thinking, man you’re right there I mean your poster child. I mean look at the suit. I mean being an MC and wearing a suit like this – I mean it’s something that it’s your creative being coming through. I know you love photography, talking about the whole content piece, but when we start talking about people who are in leader or leading type of roles and contact centers and Customer Experience. How important his creativity?

Nate Brown: I mean it’s huge. In order to find innovative solutions around whatever problem that is you’re facing. You have to think differently. And at least for me the best way to be creative – because it’s not something you’re born with. I mean some people I guess could be. You’re inspired by the people around you if you’re not creative you’re not spending enough time with creative people.

Nate Brown: That’s how I’ve done it over these years. Just as hanging around with people like you and other people that have inspired me to do this stuff. That’s how I’ve done.

Jim Rembach: Well, I think that’s a really good piece of advice and we’ve always heard that you have to surround yourself with people that are going to push you maybe you can even emulate. So, I guess you find more creative people, right?

Nate Brown: That is a real principle. That is real.

Jim Rembach: Okay, so when we start talking about the next six months. And you know we’re racing. It’s going to be 2019 before you know it. When you start thinking about 2019, what are some of the things that we need to do or what we can to see that you see your mind’s eye?

Nate Brown: The trends aren’t changing. It’s still all about knowledge – quality knowledge. AI is obviously is a thing. It’s real. But it’s going to be driven by quality knowledge. And I love the definition this morning on intelligence. It’s pulling the stuff from all over. It’s predictive analytics, it is AI, it is about your knowledge base. Your old traditional knowledge base. It’s bringing all these things together. But really tapping into the mind-power of your people.

I mean that that is still going to continue to be a trend. And I love that it is. And employee experience is not going away. Because I mean that’s the foundation of all of this and people still aren’t getting it right. Because it’s so hard. It takes forever and it’s not something where you gain victory over it and it’s over. You have to be so intentional about over time. So, I guess maybe I’m old school with the stuff. I don’t see any big trend, any new thing in 2019 is not going to blow us all away. It’s going to be the same fundamental stuff. We’ve got to keep getting better and being intentional on the things.

Jim Rembach: Yeah, I think that’s a good point. The fundamentals are never go away. That’s why they’re fundamentals, right?

Nate, we appreciate all of your efforts and activities. Definitely enjoyed you MC-ing tonight. Look forward to more those opportunities. And I want to thank you for being a being a board member of Call Center Coach and bringing your wisdom to the membership group.

Nate Brown: My pleasure. I’m very excited for what’s going on with Call Center Coach. Thank you Jim for let me be a part.

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Originally published at Call Center Coach: https://www.callcentercoach.com/how-you-can-make-a-big-difference-in-contact-centers/

256: Gleb Tsipursky: Never go with your gut

256: Gleb Tsipursky: Never go with your gut

Gleb Tsipursky Show Notes Page

Gleb Tsipursky and his wife set out to start a non-profit. But quickly they began to experience a lot of conflict trying to move things forward. Determined to successfully collaborate, they work to finally realize they had very different viewpoints and prospective on how to solve their problems. And they also came to realize they both had issues with judgement errors. Now they help others to avoid their own decision-making disasters.

Gleb was born in Chisinau, Moldova, a small country in Eastern Europe, in 1981. It’s famous for being one of the least happy countries in the world. Fortunately for him, when he was 10, his parents took him and his little brother, who was born in 1986, to New York City. That’s where he was raised.

As a kid, his dad told him with utmost conviction and absolutely no reservation to “go with your gut.” He ended up making some really bad decisions. For instance, wasting several years pursuing a medical career. Gleb also watched his dad make some terrible choices that gravely harmed his family as his dad followed his gut, such as hiding some of his salary from his mom for several years. After she discovered this and several other financial secrets he kept, her trust in him was broken, which was one of the major factors leading to their later prolonged separation. Fortunately, they eventually reconciled, but the lack of trust was never fully repaired.

From that experience, Gleb started learning about the dangers of people following their gut reactions. His conviction that the omnipresent advice to “follow your gut” was hollow grew only stronger as he came of age during the dotcom boom and the fraudulent accounting scandals of top executives of Enron, Tyco, and WorldCom leading to ruined reputations and long jail sentences. The best explanation for their seemingly irrational behavior comes from their willingness to follow their guts.

As someone with an ethical code of utilitarianism – desiring the most good for the most number – Gleb felt a calling to reduce suffering and improve well-being through addressing these problems. Therefore, he devoted himself to the mission of protecting people from dangerous judgment errors known as cognitive biases, which devastate bottom lines and bring down high-flying careers. He focused on developing the most effective and profitable decision-making strategies, based on pragmatic business experience and cutting-edge behavioral economics and cognitive neuroscience, to empower leaders to avoid business disasters and maximize their bottom lines.

Studying the topic formally, doing research in cognitive neuroscience and behavioral economics with over 15 years in academia, including 7 as a professor in Ohio State University’s Decision Sciences Collaborative, he shifted away from academia to devote his full-time efforts to business as the CEO of the boutique consulting, coaching, and training firm Disaster Avoidance Experts.

Dr. Tsipursky’s cutting-edge thought leadership has been featured in popular venues that include Fast Company, CBS News, Time, Scientific American, Psychology Today, The Conversation, Business Insider, Government Executive, The Chronicle of Philanthropy, and Inc. Magazine.

Gleb has conveyed all his experience to date in his book, Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters. The legacy he hopes to leave is to empower leaders to notice and address the kind of dangerous judgment errors that decimate so many careers and businesses.

He lives in and travels from Columbus, OH. In his free time, he enjoys tennis, hiking, and playing with his two cats, and most importantly, he makes sure to spend abundant quality time with his wife to avoid disasters in his personal life.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @Gleb_Tsipursky to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet

“I’ve seen so many leaders make terrible choices and then their followers suffer so much.” – Click to Tweet

“What we typically don’t consider is information that goes against what’s comfortable for us.” – Click to Tweet

“Our gut leads us to making some really bad choices.” – Click to Tweet

“You want to look at information that you didn’t consider that goes against your intuitions.” – Click to Tweet

“Think about all the ways that your plan can fail.” – Click to Tweet

“We all have some intuitive decision-making model in our head, but the vast majority of us don’t have a formal process.” – Click to Tweet

“There are many reasons why a pro-con list doesn’t work.” – Click to Tweet

“We tend to go way too long, not making a decision when we really should.” – Click to Tweet

“Are there opportunities you may be missing because you’re not making decisions?” – Click to Tweet

“Gather relevant information from a variety of perspectives; variety is critical.” – Click to Tweet

“Paint a clear vision of the outcome.” – Click to Tweet

“We don’t generate nearly enough options for important decision.” – Click to Tweet

“Weigh the criteria to the options that you have available.” – Click to Tweet

“Measure how well your decision is doing so that you’re able to revise it as needed.” – Click to Tweet

“We tend to assume everything will go according to plan.” – Click to Tweet

“Plans never survive contact with the enemy.” – Click to Tweet

“Failing to plan for problems is planning to fail.” – Click to Tweet

“The illusion of transparency, is the illusion that we are communicating much more effectively than we actually are.” – Click to Tweet

“Which of the 30 most dangerous judgement errors are you most prone to?” – Click to Tweet

“Your will-power is what you need to use to resist your gut intuitions and make wiser decisions.” – Click to Tweet

“We tend to be very black and white thinkers.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

Gleb Tsipursky and his wife set out to start a non-profit. But quickly they began to experience a lot of conflict trying to move things forward. Determined to successfully collaborate, they work to finally realize they had very different viewpoints and prospective on how to solve their problems. And they also came to realize they both had issues with judgement errors. Now they help others to avoid their own decision-making disasters.

Advice for others

Become more emotionally aware and get in touch with your emotions.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

I’m a little too much of a perfectionist.

Best Leadership Advice

The feeling of comfort is not necessarily the feeling that is right.

Secret to Success

My ability to effectively collaborate with others.

Best tools in business or life

My ability to take effective breaks from work.

Recommended Reading

Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters (Avoid Terrible Advice, Cognitive Biases, and Poor Decisions)

Thinking, Fast and Slow

Contacting Gleb Tsipursky

LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-gleb-tsipursky/

Twitterhttps://twitter.com/Gleb_Tsipursky

Websitehttps://disasteravoidanceexperts.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript

Click to access edited transcript

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because I have somebody on the show today who’s going to give us some insights into how we can actually make some better decisions not falling back on our guts.

 

Jim Rembach: (00:11)

Gleb Tsipursky was born in Chisinau Moldova, a small country in Eastern Europe in 1981 it’s famous for being one of the least happy countries in the world. Fortunately for him, he was 10 his parents took him and his little brother who was born in 86 to New York city and that’s where they were raised as a kid. His dad told them with utmost conviction and absolutely no reservation to go with your gut. He ended up making some really bad decisions. For instance, wasting several years pursuing a medical career live. Also watched his dad make some terrible choices that gravely harmed his family as his dad followed his gut, such as hiding some of his salary from his mom for several years and after she discovered this and several other financial secrets he kept, her trust in him was broken, which was one of the major factors leading to their long separation.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:03)

Fortunately, they eventually reconciled, but the lack of trust was never fully repaired. From that experience, Gleb started learning about the dangers of people following their gut reactions, his conviction that the omnipresent advice to follow your gut was hollow, grew only stronger as he came of age during the.com bomb and the fraudulent accounting scandals of top executives of Enron Tyco, WorldCom, which led to ruin reputations and long jail sentences. The best explanation for their seemingly irrational behavior comes from their willingness to follow their gut. As someone with an ethical code of utilitarianism desiring the most good for the most number, glove felt a calling to reduce suffering and to improve wellbeing through addressing these problems. Therefore, he devoted himself to the mission of protecting people from the dangerous judgment errors known as cognitive biases, which devastate bottom lines and bring down high flying careers. He focused on developing the most effective and profitable decision making strategies based on pragmatic business experience and cutting edge behavioral economics and causing cognitive neuroscience to empower leaders to avoid businesses asters and maximize their bottom lines.

 

Jim Rembach: (02:20)

Studying the topic, formerly doing research in cognitive neuroscience and behavioral economics with over 15 years in academia, including a seven years as a professor in Ohio state university’s decision sciences collaborative. He shifted away from academia to devote his fulltime efforts to business as the CEO of the boutique consulting, coaching, and training from disaster avoidance experts, dr supersedes cutting edge. Thought leadership has been featured in popular venues that include fast company, CBS news time, scientific America, psychology. Today, the conversation business insider, government executive, and the Chronicle of philanthropy and inc magazine glib has conveyed all his experience to date in his book. Never go with your gut. How pioneering leaders make the best decisions and avoid business disasters. The legacy he hopes to leave is to empower leaders to notice and address the kind of dangerous judgment errors that this decimate so many careers and businesses he lives in and travels from Columbus, Ohio. In his free time. He enjoys tennis, hiking and playing with his two cats. And, and most importantly, he makes sure to spend abundant quality time with his wife to avoid disasters in his personal life who have Zipursky. Are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (03:37)

Absolutely. Very happy to do session.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:40)

Well, I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (03:47)

Sure. So right now I’m really passionate about the topics. We’ve talked about how to help leaders avoid decision disasters. And the reason I’m passionate about this showed a little bit of this earlier, Jim, thank you for sharing that is because of my background, I’ve seen so many leaders make terrible, terrible choices and then their followers suffered so much, lost, so much money, lost so much morale. And it’s just devastating for me. I mean, I care a lot about people. My value such as utilitarian, so desiring the most good for the most number and when I see people make unnecessary bad choices is just, you know, heartbreaking for me. So that’s why I’m passionate about doing what I do. Helping leaders make much better decisions and avoid disasters.

 

Jim Rembach: (04:32)

Well, and I’m sure too, and I’m glad that you all even shared the experience as far as your family was concerned because you know, I always used to tell my mom that, you know, she’s a great role model and a lot of times it’s for things that I should not do.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (04:49)

Yeah. That’s my dad’s like that for me. Yup, exactly.

 

Jim Rembach: (04:52)

It’s just the way that it is. We are a role model for our children. It’s just the way that it goes. So, but when you, when you start talking about, you know, some of the common, I mean, they seem irrational, but yet they’re common mistakes that people make you, you know, in the book you start talking about different frameworks and decision making models and questionnaires and we’re going to hit on some of these things. But the first thing you talk about is five questions that, um, we need to ask in order to be able to avoid these decision disasters. Let’s walk through those five questions real quick.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (05:26)

Sure. And just to so folks know about the frameworks, my passion is solving problems. There are a lot of people who talk about, Hey, here’s how you’re screwed up, and the point is don’t Pat that right. Here’s how our brain is screwed up. There’s a lot of work out there for that. My book and my work is the, this book is the first one that actually focuses on business leadership and helps leaders actually solve these problems. And the five questions that Jim mentioned is a solution, one of the primary solutions to these problems. It’s something that you take just less than five to ask yourself before any decision that you don’t want to screw up. I need daily decision. We have more major decisions. There’s a more intense thing, but this is for daily decisions, writing emails, having meetings and are making decisions on investments that don’t matter as super much.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (06:12)

But it’s those. It’s the only ones. So first question, what important information did I not yet fully considered again? What important information did they not get fully considered? Now you want to look at imperfection. That’s only important. So decide what’s important. You don’t want to get stuck in Alice paralysis looking at all the fun stuff. Now you also want to look at information that you didn’t consider. That’s the other component of this question. And what we typically don’t consider is information that goes against what’s comfortable for us and information that goes against our gut reactions. Now, as you can tell from the title, never go with your gut. I talk a lot about how we should not go. Simply go with our gut. We should check with our head. And that’s because our gut leads us to making some really bad choices because we mistake the feeling of comfort when we’re comfortable with for the feeling of what’s true and what’s right for us at our careers in our businesses.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (07:09)

So you want to look at information that you’d been considered that goes against your intuition. So that’s the first question. Second, what dangerous judgment errors have we not considered? And these are cognitive biases and cognitive biases are the typical mistakes we as human beings make because of how the brain is wired, which we’ll talk about later in the show. And they talk about the 30 most common dangerous judgment errors in the book. Never go with your gut. How pioneering leaders make the best decisions and avoid business disasters. Third, what would a trusted and objective advisor tell you to do? So imagine a little gym on your shoulder. What would he tell you to do as you’re making your decisions? Think about that image or other trusts and objective advice. Now those first few questions are about actually making the decision. The last two questions are about implementing the decision.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (07:57)

So the first of those, or the fourth question on the questionnaire is how could I considered all the ways this could fail? Now, one of the typical cognitive biases we run into is called the planning fallacy. Where we make plans that are based on the assumptions that everything will go fine. That’s our intuitions. We are very comfortable with that assumption, but everything will go well. But how often have your plants survive contact with the enemy? The way to address that in advance is to think about all the ways that your plan can fail. Address all the problems that you can in advance by preventing them, addressing them, and also building in more resources for things you can’t visit. So that’s the forefront. And finally what would cause me to revisit what new information caused me to revisit this decision. You want to really think about this in advance before you’re actually in the heat of the moment and implementing the decision.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (08:51)

Because when you’re implementing the decision, you are committed to the decision, you’re, you’re much more likely to follow through with whatever plan you made even when you shouldn’t. Even when you should. We’ll talk later about some judgment errors as we make when we should not follow through with a decision. So you want to decide in advance what could cause you to revisit the decision, especially if it’s part of a team decision making process. Because there are always going to be some people who may not agree with a decision and then you don’t want to run into the situation where they’ll say, Oh I told you so. You know this is what’s a change of minds. You will not agree as a group what would cause you to revisit that decision and then revisit it only if that situation arises. So those are the five simple, clear questions you can ask. Take less than five minutes do so. And if one the answers doesn’t make you happy and it takes more than five minutes, believe me, it’ll be very much worth it to explore it in more depth from the perspective of not losing time and money down the road.

 

Jim Rembach: (09:46)

You know, and as you’re talking glove, I start thinking about, you know, say an, you know, an artisan or a mechanic. It’s, you know, using the right tool, you know, for the problem that’s in front of them. And the fact is that we’re using tools all day long. Um, it’s whether or not we’re using, you know, the using the right tool and then using that tool correctly. And so your book, you know, gives us a lot of these frameworks including the questionnaire to talk about that we’re going to go over, you know, in order to help people to make sure that they are pulling the right thing at the right time and using it in the right way. And one of the things that you have is the eight step decision making model a. And cause you even mentioned it’s you’re like, okay, well everybody has some model they use. It’s whether or not you have one that works well, you know and that you know how to use it. So they go through the eight step decision making model so that we can hopefully make better decisions.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (10:35)

Sure. So this is a model unlike the questionnaire which you should ask forever for daily decision making for all the little things that you don’t want to screw up when your daily life. This eight step decision making model is for more significant decisions and Jim, right? We all have some kind of intuitive decision making model in their head, but the vast majority of us haven’t threatened it out. We don’t have a formal process. I mean the best we do is a pro con list and there’s many reasons for why pro con list doesn’t work, which we can talk about, you know, if that comes up. But there’s a lot of things that don’t work. And only recently have we been discovered in Houston, cognitive neuroscience and behavioral economics, what is called evidence-based business. Now, evidence based medicine has actually arisen up in the last couple of decades. We’ve really been making a lot of mistakes medicine because we haven’t been testing it.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (11:27)

We haven’t been testing what’s actually working and what’s not. Now with testing what’s working business and what’s not, and this is a decision making model that has been shown to work effectively as opposed to the large majority of models. Intuitive models that don’t. So the first step, you identify the need for decisions to be made. Now that seems simple. You know, what’s the needs, right? Well, unfortunately we as human beings tend to go a long way too often not making a decision. When would it really should make a decision? It feels often uncomfortable to make a decision. We much prefer to leave it in the hands of other people, you know, Oh, let somebody else make the decision, not not me. I shouldn’t be the responsible one. Let somebody else do go ahead and take the responsibility. Well, I mean if you don’t take responsibility, who will?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (12:16)

Right though this responsibility may never be taken and then you’ll, the whole situation will be quite problematic. If you don’t identify the need for decisions to be made. So the first step is scan your environment, but it constantly for the need for decision to be made. That is your environment. Shifting is S is a situation becoming more problematic in some way? And then what kind of decisions did you want to make? So that’s the risk. Also opportunity. Are there opportunities that you may be missing because you’re not making decisions? So scan your environment for opportunities as well. That’s first. Then gather relevant information from a variety of perspectives. A variety is critical here. We tend to, when we gather information, ask only the people who agree with us already and we go to them because we both feel good about them. Our gut intuitions, our gut, we’ll feel good about the responses.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (13:08)

You know it’s the yes men and women. You don’t want to only hear these people. You want to go to people who you know, whole perspectives, contrary to what to your decision to your perspective and get their ideas. You don’t need to follow them, but you need to share them out. So that’s really important. Then you want to decide on the goals. It’s the third step. Paint a clear vision of the outcome. So often we go ahead with a decision not knowing what the actual goal should be. We don’t have a clear vision of what we want to reach. We just think, Oh, we should make a decision. Like let’s say you know, we should make a new model car model and we don’t think about what is the goal, what does the outcome of a car model of want to make or do, we should launch a new product and we don’t think about the goal, the outcome of this new product.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (13:53)

So these are serious problems that people tend to find and then develop a clear decision making criteria to evaluate the options with the options of the decisions that you’re choosing. And that’s a big problem. People often look at the options, you know, I have these five options. What does really, what you should start with is develop the criteria before you look at the options before. Because if you look at the options in advance, you will have prejudice yourself and you will intuitively tend to prefer one of the options and you won’t think about the right criteria. So if you’re hiring somebody, decide is the salary that they are requesting the most important thing or is there a fit for the job, the most important thing? Or are there technical skills? The most important thing and how would you weigh these? So it’s not that example.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (14:39)

Then generate viable options to achieve your goals. So that’s the options that we’re talking about. So look at all the options. Now, a mistake that extensive research has shown is that we don’t generate nearly enough options for important decisions. We tend to lead those, tend to make fast decisions. And that’s a big problem. You know, we’re in the fast leader podcast. The leaders tend to make decisions way too quickly because they settle on the first option that comes along that seems good enough and they don’t maximize, you know, they can take 15 more minutes, half an hour and get a decision that will be 50% more good. That’s, that’s so often the case and they make the mistake of not taking the time to make a wise decision.

 

Jim Rembach: (15:21)

Great segue. Hold on. I’ve got to stop right there. Go ahead. Because that’s exactly why we call it the fast leader show so that we can learn these systems and frameworks because that ultimately in the wrong long run from the longterm view we do, we do actually just, I mean from a velocity perspective we go significantly faster because if we don’t do these things correctly, as I’m sure you deal with every single day, I mean people just tell they’re doing the same thing over and over. It’s just insane decision making process. And do you think you’re moving faster? You know, fast leader, I mean you’re a boat anchor and you’re weighing everyone down. So I you setting me up for that. Sure.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (15:57)

Happy to do so. Jim, I was wondering if you’d comment on that. I was a little bit provocative, right? But in my experience, it’s not that people tend to go faster when they make these decisions. It’s that they tend to not go into the ditch because you know that’s when you really are going to be in trouble and really not going anywhere fast. So that’s the fifth one. Next, weigh the options. So again, I told you earlier about thinking about which of these credit decision making criteria is more important. The salary demand of someone they’re fit for, the job, their technical skills, whatever way their criteria according to the options that you have available next, implement the option that you chose. So and finally evaluate the implementation process. You don’t want to just say, okay I’m implementing, that’s great. We’re finished. You want to measure, you want to measure how well the decision is doing so that you’re able to devout to revise it as nude in the process. So that’s a really important last step. But people often tend to miss and they should not miss. So that’s the eight step process for significant major decisions.

 

Jim Rembach: (17:05)

Yeah. And the reason we have to have that and then you’ve kind of hit it on it here and there. As you tired of talking about biases and things associated with that. I mean you’re studying through behavioral economics and neuroscience and all of these other things, uh, you know, brain, all the brain activity and thing that we’ve learned about just within the past couple of years, you know, and why all this occurs. So if you can just kinda hit on some of those core major biases that oftentimes are, are being used, uh, on us and upon us and we’re being victimized too, that we’re just not aware of.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (17:38)

Sure. So we have a lot of cognitive biases that, so several of them will, or you talked about in the program, one is the planning fallacy that they might mention that we tend to assume everything will go according to plan. Now the planning fallacy comes up most often when people think, Oh, you know, planning to fail, a failing to plan is planning to fail. So people think that I need to make a plan because otherwise I’m going to fail. Unfortunately, that’s often a bad idea. And here’s why. We tend to make plans as STO, they will come true. We tend to plan for the best case outcomes and that is going to be a problem when we invest our resources and make a commitment based on these plans. In reality, we don’t tend to plan for all the problems that will come along. There’ll be many problems with calm that will screw up your plans.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (18:27)

You know, plans never survive contact with the enemy, but we tend to make plans as still they do so much better. Strategy is thinking to yourself. Failing to plan for problems is planning to fail. So again, failing to plan for problems is planning to fail. That’s a much better way of thinking about this planning fallacy or another one that I like to talk to folks about is the illusion of transparency and this is especially relevant since we’re talking here in a podcast and you’re listening to me. The illusion of transparency is the solution that we are communicating much more effectively than we actually are communicating. We tend to think that whatever we say, whatever we convey, the other person understands a hundred percent accurately and 100% effectively and we don’t tend to check for their understandings. Now, if I’m, when I’m doing a presentation, I do a lot of training as consulting and coaching.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (19:19)

What I do is I make sure to check the audience sexually understanding what I’m saying. Are they actually getting the information? I’m not just lecturing at them. I’m having a two way communication can do it on the podcast, unfortunately, but that’s something that you need to think about when you’re communicating with others. Are you falling for the illusion of transparency when you’re thinking that whatever you’re saying is a hub being a hundred percent understood by the other party. Another one that plugs into the illusion of transparency, the planning policy and so many others. It’s called the overconfidence bias. Now, that’s what it sounds like. We as human beings tend to be much more confident that we are accurate and we’re correct than we actually are. It’s especially a big problem for leaders. Leaders tend to be more overconfident than most people. And so I’ll give you an interesting example when studies have shown that when people say that 100% confident about something, you know that they’d bet the house on it that are actually right about 80% of the time.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (20:19)

Now think about this. If you have to make a bet, the company move, you’re very confident that this is going to be right. If you’re making a bet that Cuttery or move bet your career move, you’re only likely to be a right 80% of the time, 80% of the time. No wonder that so many companies go bankrupt in a surprising manner. So many people that are covering years are brought down in a surprising manner because of these sorts of problems. So those are just free out of the 30 dangerous judgment editors that I talk about in my book and I can talk about more, but I’ll stop there and let Jim have a chance. Well that’s, well, that’s why we have to get the book right. I mean 30 but what you do is you talk about 12 techniques that you can actually use in order to be able to address these dangerous judgment errors.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (21:05)

So if we could, maybe we should just run through those. Sure. Happy to talk about them. And like I said, a lot of folks talk about what are the dangerous judgment centers. My focus isn’t on how you actually can address them, can fix them. And so the techniques I’ll go through and follow as opposed to the 30th most dangerous judgment enters, which are can check out my book. So the first one you want just to make, be very clear about these are these are mental habits that you can develop. Unlike the questionnaire or the eight step decision making model. The questionnaire for casual everyday decisions. The question, the eight step model for major significant ones, these are mental habits that you develop and integrate into yourself. It takes a while to learn to develop these mental habits. It takes a long time to develop new mental habits.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (21:49)

I mean, remember when you learn to drive a car, it took a while to do that. Now you can do it on autopilot. That’s automatic. It’s comfortable for you. But it took a while to learn how to do that. And the same thing applies to the mental habits itself. Talk about right now, first you want to identify and make a plan to address dangerous judgment debtors. So that involves identifying which dangerous judgment earners you as an individual are most prone to. I’ll give a example about myself. I tend to be prone to the optimism bias. So the optimism bias is kind of what it sounds like. It’s the tendency to be too optimistic. You know, I tend to think that the grass is green on the other side of the Hill and the glass is half full. My wife on the other hand is much more pessimistic.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (22:32)

She suffers from a pessimism bias, unrealistically negative evaluation of the future. She thinks the glass half empty and the grass is yellow and the other side of the Hill. So we can sometimes have tensions, but we can, we can correct for each other’s deficiencies. So you want to know which of the 30 most dangerous judgment errors you’re most prone to and make a plan to adjust. Second delay your decision making before making any decision. You want to delay it to check whether to check with your head about your intuitive gut decision making. We tend to approach any decisions with our gut. Now, research has shown that about that in our decision making, about 80 to 90% of our decision making is driven by the gut intuitions. So you want to step back from your gut intuition and check whether it’s counting to 10 for very small casual decisions, asking the five questions for any decision they lead decision you don’t want to get it wrong or using the eight core steps for major decision making.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (23:30)

Then mindfulness meditation. Now you might be surprised by this and I’m talking to you’re very clearly very specifically about not about Hulu stuff, but about meditation, sitting down and doing breathing exercises like talk about that in the book and meditation techniques that have been shown by research to be effective. Why is that important? Because it builds up your focus and your focus is what you need to do. Your willpower is what you need to use to resist your gut intuition and make wiser decisions. Then make predictions about the future. Why is that important? Because we tend to be much more optimistic and confident about the quality of our decision making than we are than we actually are. And you probably see other folks who around you who think that they’re much better decision makers than they actually are. So how you can square the circle is when you look at your own decision making, make predictions about how well your decisions all turn out and have other people with whom you collaborate.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (24:28)

Make predictions about how well their decisions will turn out. And that’s way you can calibrate yourself and you can adjust yourself for more accurate decision making and help other people do so. Next, consider that an alternative explanations and options. So consider alternative explanations and options for various decisions that you want to go into. Now you want to be careful not you. Again you we w we tend to be very inclined to go with our intuitive comfortable decision making and we don’t consider other ways we can go other options for making choices and other explanations for phenomena around us. You know, if somebody, let’s say makes a remark that we see as offensive to us or is short tempered with us, we tend to attribute hostile intent to this person, whereas really it’s most likely someone who was being careless or unthoughtful and you want to consider all of these alternative explanations for the, for the free market.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (25:28)

Another one is probabilistic thinking ties into making predictions about the future. Probabilistic thinking is estimating the likelihoods of certain situations happening now. How many percent is that like we know this is very intuitive to us. We tend to be very black and white thinkers. We tend to think something either will happen or will not happen or the other option that some people will say is me now that’s a very fuzzy option. Those are very fuzzy options. Sense. What about saying, you know, this is 10% likely to happen. This is 30% likely to happen. This a 70% likely to happen. You want to be able to train yourself to make these evaluations because then you can make much better decisions. If you have those estimates in your head, then could send the past experiences. This is a very good fix for the planning fallacy. You know, I’ve worked with clients who tell me that, you know, Oh, this project has taken every time we have a situation where we make a bid on a project, we say it’s 2 million and then it takes us 3 million to do this.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (26:26)

Have manufacturing companies in Pittsburgh for example. That’s what client I worked with and they asked them, well, if he know that in the past that has always taken you a million more, 50% more, why don’t you bid more? Why don’t you actually invest that amount of money, make a plan for that amount of money. And the guy who was saying not sure why, and that’s the, that’s one very effective way of addressing the planning fallacy and number of other problems. Look what happened in the past and use that to inform the future and then consider the longterm future repeating scenarios. We tend to be very short term oriented as human beings and that’s a phenomenon related to a cognitive bias called loss aversion. We want to not lose things, we want to go and we tend to think about losing things as a really bad thing.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (27:18)

What is in the theology making short term losses for much bigger longterm gains is a very effective strategy for the future and we tend to fall for the danger of reaping short term profits at the expense of much bigger longterm gains. Then consider other people’s perspectives. We are very, so when you look at a people and you say for a team member, when I work with teams and I ask them, how much have you contributed to so leadership team, the C suite of a corporation, how much have you contributed to the overall success of the leadership team? How many percent would you say is your contribution? I don’t remember the last time when the total sum, when everyone has added up, their contribution has been lower than 150% so we have that really serious problem where people tend to overestimate their contributions. They tend to overestimate.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (28:13)

It’s very intuitive. It’s very natural for us to be inwardly oriented. But with then, if we don’t think about other people’s perspectives, we get into serious trouble down the road when we get into clashes and conflicts. Next set up policy to set up policy or use an outside view to get an external perspective. So I mentioned about that. That’s number question three. What would a trusted and objective advisor suggest you do you know? What would Jim suggest you do? Somebody who you trust, somebody who has an objective advice. Then question a point 11 mental habits. 11 set up policy to graduate future self and your organization. This is going to be especially important once you have understood that our gut intuitions tend to cause us to make bad decisions. So something that I work with a lot of clients. I have the mics short to commit to using the five questions before making any medium term and you everyday decision and the eight questions.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (29:09)

So eight step model for major decisions. So they set a policy for themselves and for their organizations and that helps them really address a lot of problems down the road when they make a commitment in the moment to making much better choices, protests, choices down the road, finally make a pretty commitment. That refers to making a public commitment that other people know about quota relevant to certain policies and certain decisions. That’s especially helpful. I’ll give you the one example where that’s helpful. That’s really helpful when you want to change your internal culture of an organization to make it acceptable to criticize the leadership or pass negative information up the ranks, you know, otherwise you get into the problem of whistle blowers who don’t want to share their information. I mean, you know, that’s, that’s a really big problem. It’s a really big issue when negative information is not passed up the ranks and then suddenly the company’s in big, big trouble.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (30:05)

Everybody knew that was about it except the leadership team. So you make a precommitment by saying, Hey, we’ll give praise, will give raises, we’ll give promotions, whatever to people who pass negative information up the ranks. And that’s a one way of making you pick another one can be, you know, make a Facebook post telling all your friends, I will lose 20 pounds in the next three months or I will make a donation to this charity that I really hate. That’s another way of making a public commitment in your personal life. So those are 12 mental habits that you can develop that would make it much easier for you to untrust the dangerous judgment editors that causes so much trouble.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:45)

Hi, I think they are. Last suggestion is a really good one. I want to do this, otherwise I’m going to donate to something I hate. Now that’s a good preventative maintenance tool. Okay. So I think what you went through right there, people could actually sit there and say, Oh my gosh, this is daunting. The fact is is that it’s more daunting to make bad decisions and have to do things all over again. And it also, you know, tarnish any type of, you know, trust or credibility or you know, anything that’s associated with that. And in all due respect, like you said, which is so important is people need to know that, okay, this is what I do. Or simple, shorter, you know, types of decisions, midterm, you know, types of decisions and all of that. But I think it’s really important for everybody to know at all different levels of an organization that we need to have structure to our ability to decide better. Because if we do fall back on our intuition, and one thing I say is, you only know what’s been put in. And in today’s world of rapid, you know, change and extensive, you know, diversity and complexity, it’s impossible. And you said it, you said it yourself, you look, you can’t know it all.

 

Speaker 4: (32:02)

[inaudible]

 

Jim Rembach: (32:03)

even if you gathered all the perspectives of all the people who work in your organization, regardless of the size of it, you still aren’t going to know it all. Yeah. So if I start thinking about, you know, weirdly where to start in all of this, um, I need a starting point because if, like I said, if not, I look at all this, I’ll be like, this is just way too daunting, right? So where do I start, cliff?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (32:27)

Well, I like to remind people that of something that a lot of their members, mothers probably said, you know, when you’re angry, count to 10 and that’s the essence of number two, delaying decision. You know, do you, when you’re angry, count to 10 or do you just kind of mild fall off and shut off that rapid email? Now just hopefully you do count the 10 like your mom said. Now just apply that to all of your decisions first. Start by delaying decision-making, count to 10 and then use the five questions. That’s a very, very easy start. It’s a very easy way to get into it. So Delaney decision making by 10 seconds and that should give you time to check with your head as opposed to going with your gut and for any decision that you don’t want to screw up in your daily life.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (33:12)

You know there’s some decisions that don’t matter right now. Where do you go to get your sushi? Probably not that bad unless you know there’s a, you know there’s a disreputable place and you have sickness, then you don’t want to do that. But in your reputable place you should be okay. But if you want to make a more serious decision, you know, how do you write a complex email to your supervisor about a problem that’s happening? That’s definitely where you want to use the five questions. So what I have is I have all my clients have the five questions setting in front of them on this handout or the decision aid handout. And that’s very easy. They have it them, they have it all the time in front of them. So that’s a very, very easy to wait to get into the process. Just use those five questions to make any daily decision. And after that, if you find them useful, which I can pretty much guarantee you will, you can start doing the more complex things like the eight steps or the 12 mental habits. So that’s what I advise people to do.

 

Jim Rembach: (34:12)

Well that’s very helpful. Okay, so, and it’s funny that you said that. I mean I think just about growing, growing up almost every day, my mother’s response to anything I brought to her was, okay, count to 10 Sharon. Okay. So knowing that when I start thinking about all those, so you know, we need tools, we need frameworks, we need inspiration. And one of the things that we look for on the show are quotes to help inspire us. Is there a quote or two that you liked that you can share?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (34:41)

So something that I mentioned, I like to challenge quotes, but the quote that I really like that is from Ben Franklin is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So that’s probably the most powerful quote that I like. The ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It’s something that we don’t think about nearly enough, but announced that preventing disaster is worth a pound of cure. So that’s one quote I love. I like to tell people you should go with it. The quest, the quotes that I challenge is go with your gut, which you shouldn’t do. That’s a powerful quote. Many people say you shouldn’t do it. Another one that I challenged and that you already know about this failing, failing to plan is planning to fail. I challenged that. Failing to plan for problems is planning to fail. So those are things that people should think about. Those are chow, those are quotes that challenged. But the first quote, I fully support. Yeah.

 

Jim Rembach: (35:33)

Thank you for sharing all of those. Okay. So there are times, however, where we haven’t done a good job following these frameworks and not all that, you know, and we’ve made mistakes and we learn them hopefully. And then next time when we approach them, you know, we don’t get fall into some of those biases. Right? Uh, so, uh, we talk about getting over the hump on the show because there’s a lot of, you know, lessons that can be learned from that so that hopefully we make the corrections, uh, going forward. But we need people to share those stories. Is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (36:04)

So one of the biggest challenges I’ve had was a situation about five months ago, I’m sorry, five years ago when in 2014 and I’ve been married to my wife since 2003 by that time. But that, but that 11 years after our marriage was probably the most challenging period in our met in our marriage. Yet we had many more conflicts, many more stresses than we ever had before. And that was because I was doing my separate consulting. She was doing her separate consulting. At that point we decided to create a nonprofit organization devoted to popularizing the research on cognitive neuroscience and being able to economics and decision making called intentional insights. And what we learned and what we were doing. We were creating this organization, planning it out and you know, and that was coming up with all of these ideas about, Hey, this is great, this is going to be great.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (36:53)

And she was like, no, that’s not going to work. What are you talking about now that’s a bad idea. And so we had a lot of conflicts, a lot of tensions, a lot of stresses and we talk things out. We kind of eventually went on a higher level of like how do we collaborate together? Why, why, why is this happening? That’s when I discovered that I’m an optimist. I tend to see the grace, the grass is greener on the other side of the Hill and she’s a pessimist. She tends to see the grass as yellow on the other side of the Hill. So that was a big problem and a big revelation. We haven’t really thought about that before because we never collaborated with any serious matter before. I had my own worksheets for homework. Right? So what we figured out that really helped me with teams, team leadership later on the board.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (37:34)

And team coaching later onward was that there is a much more effective way for optimists like myself to collaborate with pessimist like her. I take the step of creating communities. So here are 20 ideas that I generate, LA, LA, LA, LA LA, and she sees them and I pass them on to her as half-baked ideas. And then she chooses, you know, a couple of those ideas and says, okay, you know, all of the rest of the ideas, let’s, let’s put them aside these two ideas, you know, there may be worth finishing baking. And then she improves them and goes on to kind of perfecting them. And that’s her strength. She, she’s very bad at generating ideas. She’s much better than me at perfecting them, getting them into good shape. And so that’s when we really got over the hump once we learned this method of collaborating together and we were able to really flow at that point because I was generating ideas, she wasn’t proving, generating, improving generation per week. And so that’s really helped us work together going forward. And that’s how about, so two years ago when we created a disaster avoidance experts were combined her consulting business nonprofits and my consulting business and businesses to enter together to work on a joint. The consultant coach can training firm is what I’ve never been possible if we hadn’t discovered that about ourselves and learned how to collaborate better going forward.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:51)

Well thanks for sharing that. I mean cause even that you started talking about, you know, the different viewpoints and different perspectives, but still moving beyond that and doing the collaboration component because I think so many times people just stop there. It’s like, Hey, there’s too much work that needs to be done, but, but the reality is if you can actually get through that work, the outcome is significantly greater because the synergies, it’s the typical one plus one actually equaling equaling three totally is when I start thinking though. I mean yeah, you and I had the discussion prior to even recording when I looked at this book and I’m like, Oh my gosh, there’s just, there’s so much information and insight and in depth all of these things. I said glove. I said, well, the way I look at this, you actually have created a the foundation for your next six volumes. I mean, cause you can easily split all this out and go into greater depth. But you know, so when I started looking at that and you know, talking about, you know, you were in academia and you’re working now on the private, you know, private sector having your own business and doing consulting. I started thinking about some of the goals that you have. So with all this that you’re doing, what’s one of your goals?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (39:52)

Well, my personal passion is to really seriously change the way that people think about decision making for leaders everywhere to be aware that they are decision making, intuitive decision making process is far from perfect, let’s say to euphemistically and then use effective strategic techniques to address their decision making problems. So my goal is to, for my work to make a really large contribution to this year. And you’re right, you know, this is a first book. It’s a framework book and I hope to write many more books. This book really talks about the problems and solving them in an overarching 30,000 foot perspective. My next books plan to dive deep into various specific aspects of decision making and how we can improve them. So I hope to have a career writing about this, talking about this consulting and coaching about this when I can really make a significant difference to reducing suffering in the world for improving leadership decision making

 

Jim Rembach: (40:49)

and the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Speaker 5: (40:55)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com board slash

 

Jim Rembach: (41:15)

better. Alright, here we go. Fast leader Legion.

 

Speaker 5: (41:17)

I’m from the home. Oh bow. Okay, glad the hump. Hold on. As a part of our show where you get us good insights fast, ask you several questions and your job is to give us robust yet rapid responses that are helping us move onward and upward. But

 

Jim Rembach: (41:34)

it’s the Persky. Are you ready to hoedown?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (41:36)

I’ll do my best. All right.

 

Jim Rembach: (41:38)

What is holding you back from being an even better?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (41:42)

I think what’s holding me back is my desire to do things a little bit better than they should be done. I’m a little bit too much. I’m a perfectionist and I’m trying to work in that, but that’s difficult for me.

 

Jim Rembach: (41:54)

What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (41:57)

Well, the best leadership advice actually was when I was learning about the decision making and for me to the advice to not trust my gut feelings. That’s the feeling of comfort is not necessarily at all the feeling that is right of right. What is true, what is right, what is best. That was incredibly helpful advice that I got from my mentor at graduate school when I was learning about the kind of screwed a brain that we have.

 

Jim Rembach: (42:21)

And what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (42:25)

I think one of my biggest secrets is my ability to effectively collaborate with others. Now the way I do that, my secret to doing that is to always think about myself as the adult in the room. So think of myself as the adult in the room. That means that if the other person is behaving in a problematic way, I should not stoop to their level. I’m always going to be kind of much emotionally mature and see what’s driving them to engage in this problematic behavior and try to accommodate them in a way that still enables me to achieve my goals.

 

Jim Rembach: (42:58)

And what do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life?

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (43:02)

I think my, one of my best tools is my ability to take effective breaks from work occasionally. I used to be a person who worked very long stretches of time, period of self time, and they eventually had burned out at a certain point. I had to really take a lot of time back. Now I learned how to have much better work life balance and taking appropriate periods of breaks after, during long periods of work that has really helped me succeed going forward.

 

Jim Rembach: (43:29)

And what is one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? And it could be from any genre, of course, we’re going to put a link to never go with your gut on your show notes page as well.

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (43:39)

The one of the really good books in the topics that I talk about is thinking fast and slow by Daniel condom on. So here’s one of the four runners actually discovered all the ways that our brain is screwed up. And he wrote a really interesting complex book about these topics and that goes in depth into each of these cognitive biases. So for people who want to learn more about the topics that I talk about and specifically about all the ways that our Britain’s crewed up. Great.

 

Jim Rembach: (44:06)

Okay. Fast leader Legion, you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net forward slash club super ski. Okay. And so Persky is actually uh, spelled T. S. P. U. R. S. K. Y. Okay. Glove. This is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you were given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only choose one. So what skill

 

Gleb Tsipursky: (44:32)

or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? Hm. The most, the thing that I would take back is emotional awareness. I’m much more emotionally aware, much more in touch with my emotions. And this might sound weird, but it’s really not because emotions as I mentioned before, drive 90% of our 80 to 90% of our decision making. And there were a lot of dumb decisions I made when I was 25 and older. That came from me not being aware of how my emotions were driving me to make poor decisions. So being much more emotionally aware of my emotions and what’s causing me to make decisions would have been so helpful when I was 25 glad I’ve had fun with you today. How can the fast leader Legion connect with you? They can check out my book. Never go with your gut. How pioneering leaders make the best decisions and avoid business disasters and Amazon, Barnes, noble, any bookstore around you, so props to your bookstore especially. They can check out my website, disaster avoidance experts.com again, that’s disaster avoidance, expensive. Come and sign up for my wise decision maker guide list of resources there is disaster appointments, express.com/w DMG and they can always email me if they want to answer any questions about when you think they heard about in the podcast. That’s globe G L E B at disaster avoidance expert stuff. Calm, happy to answer your questions.

 

Jim Rembach: (45:54)

That’s a pesky. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

140: Edwina Cowell: When people show you who they are believe them

255: John DiJulius: Relationship is the differentiator today

John DiJulius Show Notes Page

John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a bad place.

John was born and raised on the East side of Cleveland, OH. He is the youngest of 6 kids. His father left his mother when he was only 6 years old. They never saw him again. They were a middle-class family that went to being on welfare overnight.

In school, John was labeled as ADD and ADHD. It was requested that he repeat grades 1-8, although he never did. He graduated High School dead last and flunked out of college. Through it all, John gives the credit to his success to his mom. She always believed in him no matter who called; teachers, principals, or the Police).

Eventually, John made his way back to college and graduated with a marketing degree after 7 long years. Then he drove a truck for UPS, made decent money, met his wife and they opened a small hair salon in 1993, 4 chairs 900 square feet.

Between her technical brilliance and his customer service concept the salon grew extremely rapidly, expanding and opening multiple locations throughout northeast Ohio (suburbs of Cleveland). As a result of the growth and world-class customer service reputation, organizations started asking John to speak.

His speaking career grew and he eventually wrote his first book Secret Service in 2003, which completely took him out of the salon business and full-time with The DiJulius Group. Today he still owns the salons but is not in the day-to-day operations. He also owns Believe in Dreams, a non-profit charity helping make the dreams come true for deserving children

John R DiJulius, III is the authority on World-Class customer experience. He is an international consultant, keynote speaker, and best-selling author of five customer service books. His newest book, The Relationship Economy – Building Stronger Customer Connections in The Digital Age (Greenleaf Books October 2019) could not be timelier in the world we are living in. John has worked with companies such as The Ritz-Carlton, Lexus, Starbucks, Nordstrom, Nestlé, Marriott Hotels, PwC, Celebrity Cruises, Anytime Fitness, Progressive Insurance, Harley-Davidson, Chick-fil-A, and many more.

John currently resides in Aurora, OH. He is a widower with 3 amazing boys. Johnni (27), Cal (22) and Bo (17).

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @JohnDiJulius to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet

“Today’s illiterate are those who have an inability to make a meaningful connection with others.” – Click to Tweet

“We’re all living in the touch screen age, and it has reduced all of our people skills.” – Click to Tweet

“Technology has brought us incredible advances at a significant cost; human relationships.” – Click to Tweet

“It’s ironic that good old-fashioned relationship is the differentiator today.” – Click to Tweet

“Technology is not the devil. Using it to eliminate the human experience is.” – Click to Tweet

“Customer-facing employees didn’t grow up staying in 5-star resorts yet they’re expected to give that type of service.” – Click to Tweet

“We always have to make sure we are looking at it from the customer’s vantage point.” – Click to Tweet

“So many employees are conditioned that they have to stick to policy.” – Click to Tweet

“Don’t punish 98% of your customers for the 2% that are trying to take advantage of you.” – Click to Tweet

“You tell one hundred people to go above and beyond, and that’s processed one hundred different ways.” – Click to Tweet

“We are all genetically coded to be preoccupied about ourselves.” – Click to Tweet

“Everyone’s your customer, not just the person on the other end of the phone.” – Click to Tweet

“One of the benefits of social media is you can’t hide if you suck.” – Click to Tweet

“Act as if today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others.” – Click to Tweet

“How many people have had a better day as a result of coming into contact with you?” – Click to Tweet

“Live an extraordinary life, so countless others do.” – Click to Tweet

“The seeds of potential we don’t fulfill; we just cheated so many people.” – Click to Tweet

“We’re the Walt Disney of our household or our business.” – Click to Tweet

“You’re not able to get to your fullest potential if I’m cheating you.” – Click to Tweet

Hump to Get Over

John DiJulius, III looked back on mistakes and regrets and found a pattern. He’s always been the underdog, and when he takes that chip off his shoulder and feels he deserves the recognition he’s received; he ends up in a bad place.

Advice for others

Give the gift of attention to others.

Holding him back from being an even better leader

Myself. Believing in the people around me and helping them to elevate their games.

Best Leadership Advice

Believe in others.

Secret to Success

Bringing the energy.

Best tools in business or life

The ability to delegate and my to do list.

Recommended Reading

The Relationship Economy: Building Stronger Customer Connections in the Digital Age

From the Ground Up: A Journey to Reimagine the Promise of America

Worth Doing Wrong: The Quest to Build a Culture That Rocks

Contacting John DiJulius

LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/dijulius/

Twitterhttps://twitter.com/JohnDiJulius

Websitehttps://thedijuliusgroup.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

How to Skip the Small Talk and Connect with Anyone

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

Show Transcript:

Click to access edited transcript

255 John DiJulius

Jim Rembach: (00:00)

Okay. Fast Lear Legion. I’m excited because I have Sony on the show today who has so much depth and understanding into the customer experience that I think the challenge for me is

 

Jim Rembach: (00:09)

keeping it all sorted out so that you can actually have a great experience as well. John did. Julius was born and raised on the East side of Cleveland, Ohio. He’s the youngest of six kids. His father left his mother when he was only six years old. They never saw them again. They were a middle class family that went to being on welfare overnight in school. John was labeled as add and ADHD. It was requested that he repeat grades one through eight although he never did. He graduated high school dead last and flunked out of college. Through it all, John gives the credit to his of his success to his mom. She always believed in him no matter who called teachers, principals, or the police. Eventually John made his way back to college and graduated with a marketing degree after seven long years. Then he drove a truck for ups, made decent money, met his wife, and they opened a small hair salon in 1993 four chairs and 900 square feet.

 

Jim Rembach: (01:12)

Between her technical brilliance and his customer service concept, the salon grew extremely rapidly expanding and opening multiple locations throughout Northeast Ohio suburbs of Cleveland. As a result of the growth and world class customer service reputation organizations started asking John to come speak. His speaking career grew and he eventually wrote his first book secret service in 2003 which completely took him out of the salon business and full time with the de Julius group. Today, he owns the salon, but it’s not. He’s not part of the day to day operations. He also owns believe in dreams, a nonprofit charity helping make the dreams come true for deserving children. John R did Julius. The third is the authority on world-class customer experience. He’s an international consultant, keynote speaker, and bestselling author of five customer service books. His newest book, the relationship economy, building stronger customer connections in the digital age. Could not be more timelier for the then no. For the world that we’re living in today. John has worked with companies such as the Ritz Carlton, Lexus, Starbucks, Nordstrom, Nestle, Marriott hotels, PWC, celebrity cruises, anytime, fitness, progressive insurance, Harley Davidson, Chick-fil-A, and many more. John currently resides in Aurora, Ohio. He is a widower with three amazing boys. Johnny cowl and Bo, John Julius. Are you ready to help us get over the hump?

 

John DiJulius: (02:40)

I am. Let’s do this.

 

Jim Rembach: (02:41)

John, I’m glad you’re here. Now I’ve given my Legion a little bit about you, but can you tell us what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better?

 

John DiJulius: (02:50)

Uh, you know, it’s raising my three boys. Uh, you know, making them sure they become a good, good a man and, and good human and a customer service. I love customer service, customer experience. Uh, I’m annoying to people. That’s all I want to talk about. That’s all I want to think about. That’s, that’s, you know, I just, I’m very narrow and deep.

 

Jim Rembach: (03:12)

Well, you know, narrow. Hmm, I guess you’d say your narrow perception, um, has become significantly wide. And what I mean by that is the customer experience is really a major focus for most organizations today. Even when we start talking about political relationships and races, it’s about constituent experience. So customer experience, I mean it’s all around us. I mean it is what you’re saying. It’s all about the relationships and what we’re doing today. But we have some issues, we have some issues in a lot of different ways, but one of the things you talk about immediately is the touch screen age and its impact. What do you mean by that?

 

John DiJulius: (03:54)

Well, you know, today’s illiterate or those who have, uh, inability to make a meaningful connection with others. And we’re all living in the touchscreen age and that’s not generational specific, right? We have grandparents on, uh, on Facebook and social media and we have five-year-olds that we’re handing an iPad to and, and you know, that’s their babysitter today and it has reduced all of our people skills. Um, and you know, technology has brought us incredible advances and benefits and conveniences, but it’s coming a significant cost. And that cost is human relationships. It’s, it’s that, you know, uh, drive customer loyalty, employee satisfaction, and just human happiness.

 

Jim Rembach: (04:37)

Well, unless you’re saying that there are a lot of industry analysts, um, you know, prognosticators forecasters, a lot of people talking about, you know, the machine interaction, the business automation, artificial intelligence and how many of the simple and mundane things are going to be handled by automations. So talking about the touchscreen age, that’s just going to continue to grow. However, the differentiating factor is all that this relationship compete, this piece. So what’s going to be left John?

 

John DiJulius: (05:09)

Well, it’s ironic that good old fashioned relationship is, is now the differentiator today. I mean, you know, it’s back to the 1960s and you know, that pendulum has swung so far over to high tech, low touch or no touch, um, that, um, we’re, we’re starving to be a name to someone, you know, uh, uh, someone, you know, with, with needs and pain points and desires and all those things. And, you know, technology is not the enemy. Um, it’s not the devil. Um, using it to eliminate the human experience is,

 

Jim Rembach: (05:44)

I think that’s a really interesting point that you bring up. So then you start talking about what part of the ability to create a relationship is left. And you talk about seven traits for us to really focus in on, in order us to have

 

John DiJulius: (05:58)

affective interactions with customers. So if you could, let’s walk through those a little bit so people get a better understanding of what we need to not just preserve but also enhance and really use it as a differentiating point. Yeah. And then the whole thing with, with, uh, you know, customer face and employees is they didn’t grow up. I’m staying at, you know, five star resorts, um, all of us, most of us. Um, we didn’t, you know, drive a Mercedes Benz when we turned 16. We didn’t fly first class yet. All of us, when we got our, our, our jobs, first jobs, any job we are expected to give that type of an experience to, to guests, customers, patients consists, ruins, you name it. And it’s unfair. So, you know, there, there, there has to be the part that, that the company understands what they have. They have to dictate what service aptitude, uh, is.

 

John DiJulius: (06:53)

And, and so those seven traits, compassion and empathy, um, not everyone’s going to come with these things, but most of them can be taught. So, you know, you gotta train for compassion and empathy and, you know, we’re apathetic today because, you know, we’re, we’re rushed. We only have three minutes to, you know, conduct this call. You know, the, the, the, the crazy metrics. Um, you know, and you know, we look at people as next and you know, w you know, hospitals look at people as you know, two Oh one bed B and, and you know, five-thirty haircut and all these things. And we have to make sure that we always are looking at it from the customer’s vantage point, what’s going on, um, engagement and, and warmth. Um, those are things you can absolutely spot an interview with w w with questions. And it’s also stuff that, that, that can, um, be taught.

 

John DiJulius: (07:43)

And it’s so much of this is taught in, in a great, um, orientation, soft skill training, uh, a drive to serve ownership. And now the ownership one is hard because so many employees are, are conditioned that they, they have to stick to policy. Right. You know, I’m sorry. [inaudible] we had 30 days to bring this back in. Today’s the 31st day, or I’m sorry, I can’t deliver it. Uh, because you’re outside of our one mile radius. Yeah. I know. It’s only, you know, one point, you know, one miles, but you know, our policy says, and then, you know, they get in trouble if they go against policy and that’s hard. And you know, it’s hard for great companies when you hire employees and you’re like, listen, you know, Jim, no, no policy here. You do whatever you think is eh, but they’re still scared because they’ve had their hand slapped by someone in the past that they’re, they’re, they’re so scared.

 

John DiJulius: (08:36)

Um, charitable assumption. Um, what that means is don’t punish 98% of your customers for what, 2%. You’re afraid to, you know, they’re trying to get taken advantage of you, um, presence that you gotta be present. You gotta be present to win. That. I’m so engaged, I’m with my eyes that, you know, someone could blow a firecracker off and I probably wouldn’t notice because, you know, [inaudible] nothing’s more important than the person I’m taking care of. And you know, the desire to exceed expectations that a lot of that comes from the company to inspire, to celebrate. Let me tell you what Jim did for our client yesterday. He overheard her. He did this, he went out and brushed off the snow of her car and drove it around and walked her out with an umbrella, whatever that may look like. But when you’re constantly celebrating those stories, now I’m, I’m jealous. I’m envious. I have peer pressure to raise my game.

 

Jim Rembach: (09:28)

Well, as you’re talking through running through those, John, I started thinking about all these competing forces. Uh, and while we talk about the whole touchscreen society and all of those forces, um, I also start thinking about the, the competing forces that an organization, uh, just has to contend with when you start talking about the interactions, you know, speed, you know, customer’s expectation of speed, our ability to deliver, you know, on speed. Um, you know, and like you hit on one of the components is, you know, risk, whether it’s legal risk, whether it’s, you know, inconsistency, risk, you know, these are now exceptions, you know, to our system and there are therefore, you know, we now need more people and I don’t need, I don’t want more people because it’s over. I mean all of these competing forces, the KPIs and the metrics that we look at on a daily basis. You mentioned that as well on a, on a, on an annual basis, the ones we have to report to shareholders. If we’re publicly traded, I start thinking about all these competing forces and then we’re laying the burden on that customer relationship, in the interaction on those people who are, you know, innocently, unknowing and unskilled. I mean, to me that’s a recipe for disaster. How do we prevent those things from occurring? So that on the outcome, you know, we’re delivering those relationship building customer experiences.

 

John DiJulius: (10:47)

Well the best, uh, companies, uh, customer service are short term focused, right? And they understand that it has to be a long, long term play. And you know, from, from training employees on the soft skill, I love to ask companies this, I’ll say, you know, if you were to hire my son tomorrow to work on or any customer facing position, um, how much training will you give him, uh, before he can start interacting with your customer, your public? And you know, some people say two days, some people will say two weeks, some people will say two months. That’s not the answer I’m looking for. The answer I’m looking for now is okay, of those 48 hours, 400 hours, 4,000 hours, how much of it is operational technical processes and how much is his soft skill, uh, showing empathy and compassion, the traits we just listed, making a brilliant comeback when we dropped the ball.

 

John DiJulius: (11:40)

Um, you know, those who are building a rapport and in most cases it’s 98% operational processes and way less than 2%. And at 2% sometimes is see that sign in the back. Um, you know, we’re customer first. Yeah, go do that. And you know, you know, you tell 20 people, you tell a hundred people to go above and beyond. That’s, that’s processed a hundred different ways. And so you got to make it black and white, right? And so, you know, if I tell you or anyone they go deliver genuine hospitality, I go and do that ready to go and we all break. Can we all go start content? You know, customer support, customer calls, um, you know, what does genuine hospitality really mean? So, you know, we like to make it specific, right? It’s the fi, it’s the five E’s, it’s, it’s, uh, and it take less than five seconds and, and the first three, take one second.

 

John DiJulius: (12:34)

You know, it’s enthusiastic. Greet ear to your smile, eye contact, engage them and educate them. Now I can watch you, I can listen to you read an email and say, you know, Jim, you didn’t deliver genuine hospitality. You know, your tone was like they were in an eruption in your day. You weren’t smiling. I couldn’t hear a smile in your voice. You weren’t enthusiastic, you didn’t educate them. I, they did not hang up thinking, man, Jim’s the smartest person I’ve ever met at his job. So, you know, that’s black and white. Well, and in order to be able to deepen that and enrich in that relationship, you even have another, you know, talk about the five E’s, but you also have Ford. Um, and so explain what Ford is. Yeah, I really like $4 clients have really implemented it. Um, I love to ask people, audiences, uh, companies, uh, staff, you know, who here is good at building an instant rapport with a stranger and acquaintance and everyone raises their hand.

 

John DiJulius: (13:32)

And I say, I don’t believe you. Uh, and I said, you know, you, you might, uh, you know, met someone yesterday at Starbucks or a business meeting at lunch, whatever it may be, and you might have spoke to him for 20 minutes, 30 minutes. But that doesn’t mean you built a rapport. You could have been speaking about yourself for that length of time. And we are all genetically coded to be preoccupied about ourselves. It’s not a slam, but it’s my flight that was delayed. It’s my client that’s threatening to, to, you know, get out of his contract. It’s my son that got in trouble at school today. Right? So in order to fight that, that urge, um, you know, I always say, if you want to prove to me, you know, that you built a relationship with someone would be a three minute conversation, 30 minute conversation.

 

John DiJulius: (14:16)

You have to be able to tell me two or more things of their Ford. And if you could tell me two or more things in there, Ford, you, you not only built a relationship, you own the relationship because to each and every one of us, our own Ford is our hot buttons. It’s what gets us talking fast. It’s what gets, you know, there’s some things you don’t want to ask me about my Ford unless you have two hours to, you know, listen, because I’m going to, I’m going to go on. And customer service is one of them. So for the F stands for family, right? Are they married? Do they have kids? How old are their kids? Oh, occupation. What’s he do? How long has he been doing it? What’s his title? Um, our recreation. Um, you know, what does she like to do with her or their free time or off time. She might be a yoga instructor. She, she might, you know, run marathons. Um, he might be a little league coach and then D D stands for dream. You know, what’s on their bucket list? What’s their dream vacation, what’s his Encore, you know, career that he’s shooting for.

 

Jim Rembach: (15:11)

Now, as you’re talking about that, John, I started thinking about how some people would take that purely mechanically and would say, Oh, this is my progression that I need to take. However, I would dare to say, you know, while Ford is a framework, you don’t necessarily do it in that order.

 

John DiJulius: (15:24)

No, God, no, no. I mean, you know, just like how our conversation started, you know, wherever you’re from and, and you know, and a lot of times people will offer Ford, you know, without you even asking. The problem is if you’re not paying attention to it, it’ll go right over your head. Right. And I’m guilty of this, so, so, so, uh, one of our must is in my company and a lot of our clients have adopted this is we cannot have a conference call with our clients or employees that are virtual that it has to be a zoom. It has to be a video call, right? For exactly list. I see Jimmy is a nice guy and I’m also, you are exposing so much forward to me as I am even, you know, on our walls. And you pick up on that and I’ll be honest, I’ve been guilty.

 

John DiJulius: (16:11)

Here’s the real reason why I do it is if I’m not on video, I’m not on stage. And what happens is my phone starts blowing up as we’re talking and I look and my son’s asking me if he can do something. I’ve already said no 16 times. So I’m responding and you just told me how you have to go back, you know, to, to uh, you know, your home, your home town because your grandmother passed away. And I’m like, Oh, that’s good, Jim. Chip, good, good, good. And you know, totally not listening, right? So, you know, these are techniques that make sure that we’re building that relationships. And man, this guy is a really nice, and you’re laughing at what I’m saying. So that makes me feel good and vice versa.

 

Jim Rembach: (16:50)

Well, and for me it’s cause it’s like, Oh gosh. Yeah. I mean I think of those times where I’ve actually done those things and you know, it’s like, okay, I’m sorry, can you say that again? Right. And you, I this, what you just said is exactly one of the things that I’ve instituted and I’ve pretty much every single meeting I have, I’m putting in a zoom link and I want to see people’s face. I want to make that connection. I want to be able to build that rapport. I want to, I mean, because even if it’s just a five minute, you know, you know, connection with the face and all of that, it’s significantly, you know, it’s a value point and it’s a value.

 

John DiJulius: (17:24)

You got this great smile, Jim, you really do from, from the moment we got on. But if I’m not seeing it and you might not be doing it if it’s over the phone and you know, that smile really resonates and makes me think, man, this guy is really, this is someone who I want to do business with.

 

Jim Rembach: (17:40)

Well, and I think when we incorporate all of these different things that are associated with, you know, making this, you know, relationship type of connection, these building blocks, uh, and we start doing, um, in a lot of different parts of the organization, that’s our striving the culture. And so you talk about a culture that rocks and you refer to, uh, a RNA wall, a mall, hymns book about a culture that rocks. But there was some particular elements in that that stood out for you. Can you please share those?

 

John DiJulius: (18:07)

Yeah. Irony. Maul ham is a, he’s built and sold several companies and now he’s a, a bestselling author and he, uh, his book is called the worth doing wrong. And, uh, it, the quest to build a culture that rocks. And, um, he hired us in when we’d come in. I w he hired us. His stuff on his employee experience is just amazing. So, you know, there’s a lot of things, you know, that he’s created. Um, you know, you know, in, in, in, they does it such low hanging fruit. It doesn’t cost a whole lot, but you know, he’s done things like, you know, unrestricted paid time off, um, surprise beer carts, uh, that just shows up at work. He has a better book club where he actually pays his employees to read, um, you know, free postage, uh, that he, he has a dream manager, a program that helps employees accomplish their personal dreams.

 

John DiJulius: (19:05)

And sometimes, you know, they are, that they don’t want to be here in a year from now. That’s okay. You know, uh, you know, that, you know, we know that we can’t be for everyone forever. And to some people that’s going to be a, a, a, we’re going to be a temporary transitional job, but I want that two years that you give us the best two years, um, confidential cash advances. And, and you know, irony is just, uh, he’s just brilliant the way he builds a cut culture on purpose. And, um, his employees will go through a fires for him because he does for them.

 

Jim Rembach: (19:40)

Well, and when you started talking about all of that, man, you talked to him about that, that foundational component, um, you also added something towards the back of the book, talking about how your customer experience is always on stage. Uh, and there’s five things that you talk about and associated that. So how is our CX always on stage?

 

John DiJulius: (20:01)

Well, you know, that’s the, the one thing that, that a lot of people don’t, um, you know, remember is the a M when they’re on stage. So, like, you know, in my first business, the salon business, you know, people, uh, forget that just because you know, you’re, you’re not working and you’re not in front of someone. So, so an example is let’s say a hairdresser, and this can happen in the doctor’s office. This can happen in a, you know, uh, a context center. But, uh, you know, a hairdresser walks up to the front desk and, uh, you know, you’re, you’re my friend working at the front desk and I’m waiting, you know, for you to get off or I’m waiting for you to stop serving this, this guest. So you can tell me, um, you know, we’re, we’re going to go out tonight, we’re going to go out for beers, whatever it is.

 

John DiJulius: (20:49)

Well, so I’m sitting there on my phone texting because, you know, I don’t want to interrupt, I’m going to be polite. You have some guests that you got to take care of. Well me, ma, there’s four or five guests in a line waiting to be checked in, checked out. And what they see is two employees, one taken care of, you know, the, the customer. And the other one texting, there’s not a sign above my head that says, Oh, I don’t work up here. You know, I’m off. So you know, we’re on stage there. Or you can come in on your off day and do your mom’s hair and you’re dressed like it’s an off day. Right. Um, and you know, again, the customers think, man, did they have some unprofessionally looking, you know, employees working here cause you’ve got a wife beater shirt on or a tube top or whatever it may be. Um, so, so, you know, always remember that you’re still on stage leaving at a D at the door, right? Uh, one of my best experiences I studied at, at um, uh, the, um, the Disney Institute and I got to go, this is back in the 90s, and I got to go underground and, and magic King has a whole underground and, and I hope you don’t have any listeners like under eight. Do you? I don’t want to ruin it for them.

 

John DiJulius: (22:01)

Parents cover your, your, your children’s ears. So, so, uh, I’m sure in magic kingdom ground where Casper is punching punch up and take breaks and, uh, uh, I see snow white on break smoking a cigarette, complainant about some guy and I’m like, Oh my God. You know, and then she goes back in and she freshers herself up, she punches back in, she goes up these stairs through these bushes and she reappears on magic kinda ground and 15 little five, six and seven year olds come charging at her. And she turns back in this beautiful angelic princess signing their pad, you know, posing for pictures and with Disney did was they taught her right? That, that, um, you know, people, you know, spend a lot of money, travel a long way, um, maybe, you know, save up for three years and that she’s, she’s snow white and she can’t pick and choose when she could be snow white.

 

John DiJulius: (22:50)

And so it’s every business, right? You’ve gotta leave it at the door or leave yourself at the door, um, must be present to win. Um, meaning, you know, you’re so focused on the person that, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re engaging with. And not looking over your shoulder. I’m not texting, I’m not having a conversation with my coworker. Um, you know, we, we have a video for call centers that, you know, someone’s, you know, taking a call and, you know, the, the person next to him says, I’m going to Starbucks. Um, what do you want? Oh, and you know, she’s, you know, back to, I’m not really listening. You know, everyone’s your customer, everyone’s your customer, not just the person on the other end of the phone or, or on the other end of the counter. Um, your coworkers, right? You’ve got to treat them with the same utmost respect that the ups man that’s coming in.

 

John DiJulius: (23:36)

Th this stranger in the elevator. And then, and then lastly, everyone’s in the media and, you know, listen, you know, for w w w everyone has a, a, a, a, uh, a camera, a video camera. Um, and just everything goes viral today. And, you know, I love that about social media. One of the benefits of social media is it has shine a spotlight, um, on it. You can’t hide if you suck. Um, and you know, years ago, if it would’ve happened 25 years ago, the United incidents where they drag the doctor off the airplane, that would is a, he said she said thing, but because you know, there’s proof United had to own up to it. And those things are great because that, that, you know, makes us train our employees better. Hopefully be choosy of our employees and be conscious that, you know, yeah. Well I’d love to, you know, really tell this guy what a, a diva he’s, he’s being, um, you know, I, I don’t want that on, on the six o’clock news.

 

Jim Rembach: (24:35)

Well and as you were talking, I mean to John, I started you talking about the whole development thing and you know, being able to help people to be more successful. Cause a lot of times what organizations will do from a customer experience contact center perspective is that they’ll have quality control standards and all of that in place. And they’re dinging people for their lack of performance, but they’re not developing them. So, I mean that, I mean, you talking about burnout, I’ll burn out fast if you just keep beating me and not developing me. Uh, but when we’d start talking about it at the front line level and you had talked about how, how much of that development are you going to give those frontline people, right? Saying to me, maybe it’s 2%. Well, we do the same thing for those frontline leaders and we, Hey, you know what?

 

Jim Rembach: (25:14)

You’re good at being this person. So now I want you to supervise. And people doing that same thing, right? So it, it, you know, it continues to actually build upon itself. Um, but I, I think for me, when we start talking about this relationship component and the differentiating factor, and I think Jack mob, you know, the founder of Alibaba, you know, I’ve mentioned it several times where he’s come out and said, stop teaching your kids about things that they could just look up on Google. You need to teach them how to be better people. You need to teach them about art, you know, and, and, and music and all of those things that are helping them to be better people. That’s going to be the differentiating factor of the future because all the other stuff’s gonna be automated out. It’s going to be easily accessed, it’s going to be business ruled, it’s going to be, you know, very simple. Um, and it’s the human commotion and connection that’s different. So your book, you know, really is the foundational component for all of us to be able to build that. But when we start talking about making connection, and I love this part that you mentioned, the book, um, and for me, I think it’s critically important when we start talking about conducting ourselves. You talk about screw in the small talk, you know, let’s get to the big talk. Well, what do you mean by big talk?

 

John DiJulius: (26:24)

I love that. And I was inspired by a Ted talk. Um, her name is Kaleena got, and I think if you just Google, um, screw the small talk, uh, go for the big talk. That was her theme. And she was a college student that was just struggling and lonely and just not making connections and having all these surface and, you know, then she went on vacation or, or I’m sorry, you know, went on a college trip to, you know, I think, you know, uh, you know, maybe a mission or something. And just when people are away on vacation, they’re there. There’s, they, they let their guard down, they make, you know, and we make these packs that we’re going to, you know, visit and write and do all these things, but, you know, and she’s like, well, why can’t this, the, these, uh, you know, conversations, the depth of conversations that we seem to have on vacation, but total strangers be the same with, with my friends and, and people I meet.

 

John DiJulius: (27:15)

So she, uh, you know, that was her, her topic. Uh, screw the small talk. Quit asking about, um, you know, Hey, what’s going on, how’s your day, blah, blah, blah. And you know, when you have quality time, really go and ask questions. Hey, you know, you know, we’re out to dinner and we’re having beers or you know, the four of us a significant others are out and we do this. I have it in my phone, big talk questions and I love it. And it’s from her and it’s just from questions, you know, Jim, if you’re today was your last day, what would be your biggest regret? Or you know, who’s someone that, you know, uh, uh, a celebrity that you love to have lunch with, you know, and, and you know, things like that. What’s the one thing you hope you’re, you, you know, what you know, here’s a good one.

 

John DiJulius: (27:57)

That it was really surprising. What’s the first thing you think of that pops in your head when you get up in the morning? And a really good friend of ours said, Oh my God, I have to go to work. I hate my job. And I just felt like, you know, and maybe that’s a normal one, but I just was like, Oh God. Like I felt, so I wanted to help her get a new job because I like you, I’m sure I wake up and I can’t believe I get to do this and I know I might be in the minority, but what a horrible thought for you know, just to think that, you know, in, in, in 27 years or in 13 years, I could retire and hoping that you get old fast. Right? So, but, but you wouldn’t have those without, you know, having those stimulating questions that take it to a much deeper place. And it really exposes a lot about the person in a nonjudgmental way. But you know, where, where they’ve come up with that thought pattern, something from their childhood, whatever it may be.

 

Jim Rembach: (28:54)

And what we don’t realize is that helps us to make significantly deeper connections than we could otherwise. And incorporating those into our business are important. I mean, and so maybe our big questions that we’re asking people, you know, aren’t things that would be inappropriate to ask, but yet still allow us to make connection. Now. This is all inspiring and we need to do it in order to be able to refocus and make these changes and to make these connections. And you have a lot of quotes that you have in the book, but is there one or two that stand out for you that you’d like to share?

 

John DiJulius: (29:23)

Yeah, yeah. So, so, uh, I have a quote that pops up on my phone at 6:00 AM in the morning, um, every morning. And then when it pops up, uh, at 10:00 PM and then at 6:00 AM is act as if today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others. Um, and that’s important to me and, and I try to do it, act as if today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others. And then, you know, the one at the end of the day is, you know, how many people had a better day as a result of coming in contact with you. And I really try to think about that and kind of, you know, and, and some days I’m not happy with the answer, you know, as a bad mood. I, I rushed, I, I snapped at my kid, you know, cause we were on, you know, taking them to school and they said, Oh wait dad, I left my homework at, at home and you know, I do, you know how that’s gonna screw up. I gotta be at Erie, you know, you know, that’s the way I, I let him go off to school, you know. So it’s those two things at this. If today’s the day you’ll be remembered for how you treat others and how many people had a better day as a result of coming in contact with me.

 

Jim Rembach: (30:23)

I love that. Now, John, also for you and I, um, you know, we went through an activity of, of building your bio for the fast leader show because a lot of my guests, they don’t come with a bio that I asked for me. Cause of a lot of the things that you’re talking about in this book, how do people connect with John that they’ve never been able to connect with before? Um, they know who John is, not just what John has done. Um, and, and, and I, I get a lot of feedback for that. Sometimes I get feedback saying, well, I don’t like to do this, you know, and, and as you know, guests and I’m like, well, then you’re just not a fit for the show. No big deal. Um, because relationships are critically important. Um, and so one of the ways that we also learn is by people sharing their stories of what, when they got over the hump and that has two effects. Um, one is, you know, we get to learn about the person even more, and then also hopefully we can take those learnings for ourselves. Yeah. So is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share?

 

John DiJulius: (31:14)

Yeah, I hit it too many. And I think sometimes when we learn from our worst practices or other people’s worst practices, but, uh, you know, um, growing too fast, I think that’s a struggle. Um, you know, [inaudible] it’s intoxicating. Uh, but then you wake up and you realize that you’ve added some people that I don’t know why, uh, you know, I would never would have hired this person or kept this person or compromise, but you convince yourself, you know, not only do I need to keep Jim, I need, you know, 10 more. So, you know, but, you know, now we’re losing clients, losing employees because we kept a bad attitude or things like that. And, and, and, you know, maybe taking jobs or clients that weren’t in our wheel house. Um, so, you know, I, I look back on everything. I’ve made a mistake in that I regret or, you know, embarrassed to, eh, I actually found a pattern and in my whole life from little league to, you know, college to, you know, everything is, I’ve always been the underdog, right?

 

John DiJulius: (32:19)

I’ve always been too short to, to play, you know, at the level I wanted to. And, but yet I, I walked down, I made, you know, college baseball, right? Um, you know, you know, was not a smart person. It, you know, and, you know, academic, you know, ways. And I really grew up thinking that I had, you know, a mental issue cause that’s what the teachers are telling. So, you know, I’ve always had a chip on my shoulder, but it’s when I, I take that chip on my shoulder off and think I’ve made it right and think I deserve. And you know, and I, I think that, you know, the, the last standing ovation I had, you know, is, is, you know, I believe it or you know, something that, you know, and that’s where I, I find that I end up in a, in a, in a bad place where, you know, when I’m not the underdog, um, you know, I, I have to keep that chip on my shoulder because that’s always correlation to, you know, where I start believe in my bio. You know, I like the bio you had, cause the bio, you read the bio, you researched, um, talk more about my failures. Uh, but if I read that, you know, he’s a bestselling author and you know, this, that whatever, and I start to believe that I started having, you know, some, some cleaning up to do, I can understand what you say. Your humility is where your gold is, right? Yeah, exactly.

 

Jim Rembach: (33:35)

Well, John, I, you know, you’ve written several books. You have the digital ileus group, you’re doing a lot of things. Um, and I know you have several goals. You know, the boys you said you want them to be able to impact humanity, uh, even more so than you have already. Um, I think that’s all of our goals as parents who want to achieve, right? We want our kids to outdo us. Um, but when I start thinking about one of those goals,

 

John DiJulius: (33:58)

what would it be? You know, I have my favorite mantra and it’s up, uh, you know, in my mirror and my office is, you know, to live an extraordinary life so countless others do. And, and that, that really is important to me. And it’s just not a mantra I look at. I write a plan for it. And what I mean is, you know, I don’t want to live an extraordinary life, so I have more houses, more cars, more vacations, more money in the bank account. Um, if I live an extraordinary life, the chances that my kids, my clients, my employees will, and I feel that that’s not an opportunity. It’s, it’s our obligation to, so we all have seeds of potential and, um, the, the, the seeds of potential we don’t fulfill. We just cheated so many people. Right. Um, you know, think of if Martin Luther King, well, Disney, you know, the, you know, Nelson Mandela, you know, all that.

 

John DiJulius: (34:51)

But what if they just said ass, screw it. I’m going to be ordinary, right? How different our lives should be today. And you know, we’re the Walt Disney, uh, of our household or of our business or whatever. And you know, if I choose to, to eat donuts at lunch, um, go have beers with, uh, my buddies from college who are not, you know, the best influence on me. Um, and, and you’re a good friend, you’re a family member, you’re a a partner. And, and you know, you come to me and say, John, I don’t think you’re making the right choices. Some people would say, Hey, that’s none of your business. I call bull. You know, because if I make those bad choices, it does impact you. I’m not as good of a partner. I’m not as good of a parent. I’m not as good as a significant other.

 

John DiJulius: (35:38)

I’m not as good about a boss and I’m not going to be able to help you get to your fullest potential if I’m cheating you. And you know, and you know, it’s the old thing, you know, you, you, you, you eat like crap and you don’t exercise and you’d come home and you’d just collapse on the couch, have a beer and your watch ESPN and your kid wants you to play catch. I got on that right now, right? I mean, you know, what is that? So, so that is a burden that, that really guides me to make better decisions because it’s not for me. It’s not for my benefit. It’s for all the people, the ripple effect that are dependent on me to make good decisions.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:12)

And the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:19)

And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities. They want to improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com for slash

 

Jim Rembach: (36:38)

better.

 

Jim Rembach: (36:39)

All right, here we go. Fast to the Allegion. It’s time for the home. Oh now, okay John, the hump day hoedown is a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust get rapid response to sort of help us with onward and upward faster. John did Julius, are you ready to hoedown?

 

John DiJulius: (37:00)

Hi.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:01)

Yep. Alright. So what is holding you back from being an even better leader today?

 

John DiJulius: (37:08)

I’m just, you know, I can’t make excuses and, and just have to believe in the people around me and help elevate their games.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:17)

What is the best leadership advice you have ever received?

 

John DiJulius: (37:20)

Uh, I believe in others. Um, you know, believe in others and even when it’s not easy to believe in them, that’s the time to believe in them.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:28)

What is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success?

 

John DiJulius: (37:33)

Uh, I, you know, I, uh, energy, I love words and, and, and energy. You bring it, you bring it and, and, and the room picks up. Um, I, I see you walking by on Jim Jibo, you know, how you do and, and you know, he has a, uh, uh, uh, a bounce in his step.

 

Jim Rembach: (37:50)

What is one of your tools that you help, believes, drives you and helps you in business or life?

 

John DiJulius: (37:57)

I, you know, I, I think, uh, just the ability to delegate and, and, and, and also my a to do list. I, I’m, I’m a freak about my to do list and limiting the things I have to, to get done today. Instead of having 20, I have three, I have to get those done and everything else is a bonus.

 

Jim Rembach: (38:15)

And what would be one book you’d recommend to our Legion and it can be from any genre. Of course we’re going to put a link to the relationship economy on your show notes page as well as well as your other books.

 

John DiJulius: (38:25)

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I just read, uh, from the ground up by Howard Schultz. Um, the uh, us Starbucks, a CEO and kind of founder of Starbucks. Um, and it’s really uh, inspiring the, the uh, the person he is, uh, uh, the social conscious he has for people and communities outside of being a very successful

 

Jim Rembach: (38:47)

business owner. Okay. Fast leader Legion. You can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/john D Julius. Okay. John, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you’ve been given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have now back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only take one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and,

 

John DiJulius: (39:09)

well, um, I don’t know if I can, uh, the word be an empathy being present. Um, I, you know, I, I was, I just, I just think it was something that I, I had a, uh, a reputation for you got to say a quick five words or less and I’m embarrassed of that today and to give people my presence and my attention. I think the greatest gift we can give anyone is the gift of our attention and having that skill set, I learned it, but man, I, I’d be so much further, um, just in an emotional capital if I had to learn that a younger age.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:46)

John, I had fun with you. How can the fast leader Legion connect with you?

 

John DiJulius: (39:50)

Uh, the de Julius group.com, uh, the de Julius group.com. Uh, email me John at the D, Julie’s group.com.

 

Jim Rembach: (39:57)

John did Julius, thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. The fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.

253: Mary Lippitt: Target what matters when it matters

253: Mary Lippitt: Target what matters when it matters

Mary Lippitt Show Notes Page

Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking.

Dr. Mary Lippitt’s early years were spent in New Haven, CT; Lincoln, NE; Schenectady NY; Arlington VA; Paris, France; and Bethesda MD.  As the daughter of a minister, she moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed.

As an adult, Mary has lived in Buffalo, NY, Bartlesville, OK, Miami Fl, Bethesda MD (again), and now in Tampa Bay, Fl. And over the years, she worked for county government, an international electronics firm, and as director of a university’s master of human resources program.

These divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way we develop our leaders. We traditionally focus on the internal aspects of an individual; their personal style, traits, and competencies. The context or outer realities are largely being overlooked.  Her distinctive work fills this gap by helping leaders critically analyze and address their complex and challenging issues.  In Mary’s book, Situational Mindsets: Targeting What Matters When It Matters, she offers a framework to build effectiveness, engagement, collaboration, that produce results.

Mary founded Enterprise Management Limited in 1984 and has served public, private, and non-profit clients interested in boosting critical thinking, the bottom line, and engagement. In the US, she has partnered with Bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Marriott, SAIC, the US Department of Energy, and the US Marine Corps.  She has also worked in Japan, Turkey, France, and Kuwait.

The role Mary enjoys the most is being a grandmother to her two grandsons, and she apologies to her daughter for making this statement. But grandparenthood has all the pleasures without any of the hassles of being a parent.

Mary currently lives in Tampa, Florida between her many travel adventures.

Tweetable Quotes and Mentions

Listen to @marylippitt to get over the hump on the @FastLeaderShow – Click to Tweet 

“You could deliver results and still care about people.” – Click to Tweet 

“Kindness and results are not exclusive to each other; you could do both.” – Click to Tweet  

“The success rate of change is dismal because the change agents don’t listen.” – Click to Tweet  

“A mindset is a temporary point of view; it is not genetic or a personal style.” – Click to Tweet  

“When I focus, I can achieve something.” – Click to Tweet  

“If I keep trying to juggle six things, I’ll make very poor decisions.” – Click to Tweet  

“Change is probable, pervasive, problematic, and promising.” – Click to Tweet  

“Change is where we’re going to have new opportunities, but we may not like the process of having to go through that change.” – Click to Tweet  

“By the time I’m being forced I have fewer options. As long as I’m proactive I have more to choose from.” – Click to Tweet  

“Leadership today is about asking the right questions, it’s not about having all the right answers.” – Click to Tweet  

“No one has all the right answers, the world is too complex.” – Click to Tweet  

“The focal point is important because that creates the common ground.” – Click to Tweet  

“I realized, when you think differently from me you help me.” – Click to Tweet  

“Instead of labeling somebody right or wrong, what can I learn.” – Click to Tweet  

“I’m realizing I don’t have all the information, but I also realize no one does.” – Click to Tweet  

“Our focal point of leadership has become a little too narrow.” – Click to Tweet  

Hump to Get Over

Mary Lippitt was trying to influence her bosses and was rejected. When she was able to finally meet with the top executive, she realized she needed to open her mind and to recognize that her facts contained many gaps and she needed to adjust her thinking.

Advice for others

Learn to be able to say you do not know.

Holding her back from being an even better leader

I like to follow new ideas that sometimes I forget the priority of following through with my immediate goals.

Best Leadership Advice

Listen, persevere, and respect others.

Secret to Success

I’ve developed the ability to ask good questions.

Best tools in business or life

I use a situational mindset checklist.

Recommended Reading

Situational Mindsets: Targeting What Matters When it Matters

Thinking, Fast and Slow

The Art Of War

Contacting Mary Lippitt

LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/marylippitt/

Twitterhttps://twitter.com/marylippitt

Websitehttps://enterprisemgt.com/

Resources and Show Mentions

Call Center Coach

An Even Better Place to Work

 

Click to access edited transcript
253 Mary Lippitt episode Jim Rembach: (00:00) Okay. Fast leader Legion today. I’m excited because we have somebody on the show who is really going to give us some greater understandings and frameworks on how to be significantly more effective. Dr Mary lipids early years were spent in new Haven, Connecticut, Lincoln, Nebraska, Schenectady, New York, Arlington, Virginia, Paris, France in Bethesda, Maryland as the daughter of a minister. She moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed herself as an adult. Mary has lived in Buffalo, New York, Bartletts bill, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida, Bethesda, Maryland, and now in Tampa, Florida. And over the years she worked for County government and international electronics firm and as a director of a university’s master of human resources program, these divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way that we develop our leaders. Jim Rembach: (00:00) nd as the daughter of a minister. She moved frequently. These experiences showed her that despite outward differences, we share many commonalities. She formed a deep commitment to finding ways to bring people together and reduce the proclivity to stereotype or dismiss others since she did not like being labeled or pigeonholed herself as an adult. Mary has lived in Buffalo, New York, Bartletts bill, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida, Bethesda, Maryland, and now in Tampa, Florida. And over the years she worked for County government and international electronics firm and as a director of a university’s master of human resources program, these divergent experiences helped her recognize there is a missing element in the way that we develop our leaders. Jim Rembach: (01:07) We traditionally focus on the internal aspects of an individual, their personal style or their traits and their competencies. The context or outer realities are largely being overlooked. Her distinctive work fills this gap by helping leaders critically analyze and address their complex and challenging issues in Mary’s book, situational mindsets targeting what matters when it matters. She offers a framework to build effectiveness, engagement, collaboration that produces results. Mary founded enterprise management limited in 1984 and has served public, private and nonprofit clients interested in boosting critical thinking and bottom line and engagement in the U S she has partnered with bank of America, Lockheed Martin, Marriott, S a I see the us department of energy and the U S Marine Corps. She has also worked in Japan, Turkey, France and Kuwait. The role Mary enjoys the most is bringing a grandmother to her grandsons and she apologizes to her daughter for making the statement, but grand Parenthood has all the pleasures without any of the hassles of being a parent. Mary currently lives in Tampa, Florida between her travel excursions, Mary lipid. Are you ready to help us get over the hump? Thank you. I’m really glad you’re here and I’m really excited to talk about this particular topic. But I think before we get into that, I think it’s extremely important for you to explain who is Kate Hollander? Mary Lippitt: (02:33) Kate Hollander is the new head of sales at a printing company in Denver. And she walks into a situation where her staff really would prefer that she would not be there because they would wanted her job. The sales are declining rapidly. There are silos between the organizations in the, uh, between, uh, sales production and she, the owner is a micromanager. So she has a lot or plate from the get go. And the story talks about how she’s resolves this by delivering results, but also at the same time by making sure that people are engaged and respect it. What I’m trying to show in this story of Kate is that you could deliver results and still care about people. You know, kindness and results are not exclusive to each other. You can do both. And that this is what Kate shows people how to deliver results, but to work well together Jim Rembach: (03:38) well, and to give this even more justice. What you did is really set a very important setting and how Kate actually goes about her work when you talk about her being a medic. So if you could explain that a little bit, I think that’s a really good foundational elements to kind of help give people some understanding and context when we get into this discussion about these situational mindsets. Mary Lippitt: (04:02) Okay. Kate had been in sales before for a medical device manufacturer, but after nine 11, she chose to serve in the military and serve as a medic. So she’s coming off of tours in the middle East and she’s accepted a job in an industry that she is not familiar with. And so she knows about sales, but her recent experience is really in middle East and being a medic rather than a sales person. So there’s a lot of discounting her, uh, stereotypes about, you know, what can she do for us and you know, she’s younger than we are and all sorts of other aspects. Cloud, uh, the initial impression of her, uh, what really happens is that there is actually the restaurant next to her, the printing business, there’s an explosion. And then they see her in action and they realize a couple of things. Not only is she very decisive, but she also, no one knows when to step back. Mary Lippitt: (05:08) She handles the triage effectively. She directs people clearly and with respect, no panic. But when the emergency medical people arrive, she knows to step back. So this is not someone who is really out to, to, to, to look like on the hero. Uh, she works well with others and people realize, well she goes have some skills, maybe she doesn’t know a lot about printing yet. And the, she has to balance a reality that the owner of the business is pushing her go, go, go, go. And she recognizes that the sales have been going down for a while. So it isn’t just a motivational thing. There really are some other aspects. So she uses her honeymoon period just to sit back and do some analysis of what it is that’s really happening. And in that process she recognizes that, that her staff is using a transactional approach, just get the sale and move on. Mary Lippitt: (06:11) And she knows that customer service, uh, as you would know, well, requires a lot more than that. And she talks to the team and helps them come up with a ability to tailor their interactions with their potential clients to make sure that they have a solid sale and one that survives the actual first, um, order to deliver additional orders. And, and this is really resisted at first because after all, she doesn’t know the printing business and, you know, why should we change? We would be doing it this way for so long. And so she actually takes a step back and instead of trying to, um, demand, um, compliance, she actually works with her staff. She goes on sales calls with them, she doesn’t try to upstage them and she shows very early, they sh that she is trying to help them because she’s identified what their major problems are within the organization and she tackles those right away to gain some early wins to build the confidence that she really is going to be someone that helps them. Mary Lippitt: (07:21) So there’s a lot going on that she’s trying to juggle. And I should mention that she got this job because the vice-president charge of operations for title’s vice president of sales was someone she worked with in the military. So he was her advocate and the owner was a little reluctant to hire. She didn’t have the Printy experience. And again, he was hit the deck running nose down to the grindstone kind of guy. And, and so this, um, strong recommendation is, is the reason that she got the job, but the welcome was a little bit lukewarm. Jim Rembach: (07:56) Well, but you also talk about that and everything that you described there and the competing forces associated with this. So there’s, you know, the situations of threat from outside, um, you know, all the marketplace, you know, pressures, you talk about the internal culture, uh, you talk about, you know, uh, people trying to silo, you know, uh, protect, I mean, all of these different factors that I think everybody can relate to in so many different ways. And, and so then you start explaining this whole really how you navigate all of this and how Kate navigates all this. And that is in the situational mindset model. So if you could talk about the, the six components or elements of the situational mindset model because of if you just take them by word, um, you could potentially be misled and I think you need to explain them a little bit. Mary Lippitt: (08:43) Okay. There, there are six mindsets. Let me just preface my comments by people say, Oh, there’s gotta be more than that. I will remind people that there are three primary colors and we get lots cubes. There are seven musical notes, so we get lots of melodies. So having six is not as outrageous as it may seem. So let me identify the six. The first is I call inventing. It is a focus on what are the new products we should consider, uh, what are the new technologies that we can apply? What are the synergies that we can create internally or externally? So this is a focus on making sure that you are offering the products that are state of the art. And we do know that, you know, certain companies really go out of their way to make sure that they are state of the art, you know, whether it’s an Apple or or whatever organization it is. Mary Lippitt: (09:38) Having that reputation really is a discriminating factor for many customers. So that’s the first one. The second one is very customer oriented, calling it the catalyzing mindset. And in this mindset we’re looking at who our key customers, how can we increase our customer base, how can retain our customers, how can we provide them with customer service? What are the emerging customer needs? So both the first two are very external to the organization. They’re looking at technology and new ideas. They’re looking at the customer, which is obviously external. And those are really what I would call the entrepreneurial stages, the small business getting started. And then there’s a shift from the external point of view to looking at the organization. And I know you’re very familiar with the fact that organizations can grow rapidly, but sometimes there’s a lot of chaos in that growth. And so the third mindset is called the developing mindset. Mary Lippitt: (10:41) And it takes a look at how should we be organized? Should we be functional matrix, geographic product, whatever. But it’s also establishing, you know, what are our policies? What’s our pay policy, what’s our, uh, our policy on promotions. It’s taking a look at what are the systems that we need? How is information going to flow? What are the decision making practices we have? So it’s what I’ll call a macro orientation to how we function. And this is the orientation that says let’s take a look at our goals and make sure that we’re doing the right thing rather than just doing things right. So that’s the third one. The fourth one is also internal look, but it’s more of a micro look. Then the infrastructure develop a mindset. We call that the performing mindset. And in this mindset, what we take a look at are things like process improvement, a quality improvement, workflow analysis, facility layout improvement, um, return on investment, meeting the budget, uh, vendor management, supply chain management, all of the, the, the adjustments, the tweaking, the polishing of a work flow. Mary Lippitt: (11:57) And of course, you know, that is where we get the efficiency. So this is a very efficiency but quality oriented mindset. So the, the fifth mindset is still internal, but it’s taking look at the people is taking a look. What is a talent we have? Do they have the right competencies? How do we retain them? Do we have good collaboration? Do we have engagement? Do we have a succession plan? Do we have an agile culture? Are we change ready? Uh, are we proud of ourselves or do we set, have a sense of commitment and loyalty. All of the without broadly call the people and culture aspects. And, and again, some people tend to discount this area and I would just like to remind people that Peter Drucker said, culture eats strategy for breakfast. So this although may not have the pazazz of a customer sale, uh, if you don’t keep your sales people, if you don’t have the right compensation system for them, if they’re not proud of your product, they will stay with you. Mary Lippitt: (13:03) And you call that the protecting mindset. Why protecting? Because it’s protecting what we’ve achieved in terms of our product, our customers, our infrastructure and our processes. So it’s protecting all that we’ve built so far. And this is a very proud, you know, stage. And in that every one of these stages has many advantages, but many also disadvantages. And what can happen with protecting is that I’m so proud of what I’ve got. I won’t change. You know, we’ve, we’ve perfected everything, don’t mess with success. And the sixth and final mindset is taking a look at the trends that we need to adjust to. It’s called the challenging mindset because it’s challenging what we’ve already established. And this is taking a look at new initiatives, new business opportunities that we may have. It takes a look at maybe new business models. And again, just talking about the printing industry for a second. Mary Lippitt: (14:04) You know, there was a time when people would say, no one, no one will ever buy a book without being able to go to a store, open the book and look at, you know, but nobody will buy the book. Um, and I will say that Amazon has such, uh, show them how false that assumption was. So the challenging mindset looks at business models changing the strategy, adapting the strategy. It also takes a look at what of some potential new partnerships that we should go after. What are the kinds of alliances we should make? You know, it’s taking a look at positioning the organization for the future. There’s a lovely quote from Mark Twain that, you know, if you’re on the right track, that’s great, but you just stay there, you’re going to get run over. And the challenging mindset is going to tell you this is, you know, an opportunity to continue to grow. Mary Lippitt: (14:56) We don’t have to throw the baby out with the bath water. What we really can do is take what we’ve done well expanded, prepare us. We have to be an organization that sustains itself. So those are the six. And again, three of them are internally focused. The developing, the performing and the protecting. And three of them are really externally focused. The challenging, which is looking at the trends, you know, what does the demographic difference mean for us? Uh, what does it mean? You know, that the interest rates are lower than we had anticipated. All those things have to be considered. So the challenging, the inventing and the catalyzing mindset look more externally. And what’s really interesting is most change agents are looking at challenging, inventing and catalyzing. And we know that the success rate of change is dismal. And that’s because the change agents get so excited about their idea that they don’t listen to the other mindsets that people have. And again, a mindset is a temporary point of view. It is not genetic, it is not a personal style. It say I’m going to do what I think is most important. And um, historically we had something called faster, cheaper and better and we would say, you know, do it faster and then it will obviously be cheaper. No, not necessarily. So this framework in the largest, that faster, cheaper, better into a more comprehensive analysis. Jim Rembach: (16:25) No, but I think you bring up a really interesting point, right? So it’s, I have these six elements and as you were explaining them, I started thinking about all these different subsets. So I’m like, okay, I’m an organization and it was all as you, if you, if you still even thinking about that from a champion perspective, they can’t focus on everything. It’s just not possible. The whole, you know, multitasking myth is, is quite true. While we have to do a lot of things, uh, it doesn’t mean that we can focus on a lot of things. So when you start talking about choosing and choosing, which mindset, how do you go about doing that? Mary Lippitt: (16:57) Well, the first thing is you have to do a comprehensive analysis of your situation. And the term, the title of the book is talking about mindset, which is a present orientation. What’s, what am I facing now? But instead of having it be your mindset about myself and my own capabilities, it’s doing an awareness of the actual situation that I’m confronting. And so I would love to do six things simultaneously, but, but I know that I can’t text and drive, so I have to become aware of my limitations. And that’s not a bad thing because when I focus, I can achieve something. If I keep trying to juggle six things, I’ll make very poor decisions. I haven’t really analyzed everything and I’ll come across as someone who is a chameleon. First she wants this, then she wants that kind of thing. So we have to make choices. Mary Lippitt: (17:50) But those choices are not permanent. I think people resisted a choice because they thought, okay, this is gonna be a five year plan or a 10 year plan and what we have now is the speed of change is coming so fast that we could do one priority to time complete it and move on to another. There was a lovely story about the fact that if you’re driving a car, you adjust your position, your hands, your eyes, every nine seconds and you know, this is the rate of change and change is probable, pervasive, problematic and promising. So you know, the change is where we’re going to have new opportunities that we may not like the process of having to go through that change, but we’re going to have to to be successful. Jim Rembach: (18:40) Well, and I think as you said that there’s one thing for me that I think is kind of stands out as that I would rather be proactive and rather it be voluntary than be forced. Mary Lippitt: (18:49) Yes. Because by the time I’m being forced, I have fewer options as long as I’m proactive, I have more to choose from. Jim Rembach: (18:57) Yeah. That’s funny that you say that. My daughter right now is a, uh, in high school and she’s a junior and I’m like, you need to start looking at schools. I said, because if you don’t do that, because she’s also an athlete, I said, you know, you have to start creating relationships that you surely should have already been building. If you want a roster spot, you know that it’s all about relationships these days. I mean, they, yes, they look at the athleticism and you know, athletic abilities, but they also want to make sure they’re finding the right cultural fit. It’s become so darn important. You’re, you’re going to be left with whatever the scraps are if you don’t get moving. Mary Lippitt: (19:31) And one of the things she should be considering is getting tapes of her in action. I mean, there are things that she could do now to help her, you know, identify the coaches that she might want to send information to, you know, and maybe even look at those where she can get on the roster and maybe also look at those where she could get a scholarship. So, I mean it looks like it’s far off to just somebody, but, but there are things we can do now to position ourselves well for the future. Jim Rembach: (19:58) That’s right. And that’s just exactly what we’re talking about as far as, you know, really being able to, okay, now I understand this framework, uh, and then I need to go about the choosing process, but I need to master this. I mean, because I need to be proactive with it. I cannot be reactive. I’m going to lose choices and options. I’m going to be the one being disrupted instead of being the disruptor. And so I have to master it. So now it’s a master. You talk about really two key key elements. There’s probably more if they are, please explain them. But you talk about focal points and guiding questions. Explain them. Mary Lippitt: (20:30) Well, I think I w w I would say is the guided questions are helping us identify all the information first. Because what happens is the, sometimes we have an idea but we don’t really test it out. Is this really the best option I have? So the questions become a checklist to make sure I’ve collected the data from everyone. And again, one of my assumptions is that leadership today is about asking the right questions. It’s not about having all the right answers cause no one has all the right answers. The world is too complex. So getting the questions surfaces the data so then I can evaluate it and set my priority or the focal point. But then I can also communicate that focal point by explaining exactly why this is the most important thing to tackle at this point in time. Jim Rembach: (21:21) Well I think the importance here too is that, okay, so I need to learn this framework. I need to have stir start working on mastering this framework because I do have to decide faster and I can’t just decide based off of what I’ve known or even what others are doing. Because if I look at these situations, um, there, there’s that unique DNA that starts actually revealing itself and that’s what I have to work with. Mary Lippitt: (21:45) Correct. I think the only thing I would say is that the, I have to keep reminding people that a mindset is a very temporary thing. So just to say it, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s fun following what the current priority or issue is, but it isn’t a permanent label of what I will always choose. Uh, you mentioned that I lived in Buffalo, New York and it’s in a, in a hurricane over in Florida or blizzard in Buffalo, New York. You don’t care what the background, whether somebody graduated from, uh, you know, in engineering or someone graduated in art. If they can help you get out of the storm, you say, thank you. So the focal point is important because that creates the common ground that creates the teamwork that makes things happen. And it could be a very temporary thing. I mean I can, if I’m in a blizzard and I, I can’t even open my car door cause it’s frozen and somebody tells me how to do it, you know, I’m thankful but I’ve learned it, I’ll move on. So I’m talking about a mindset is a very, very temporary assessment of what is most important to do. But that temporary assessment is going to help me set the priority, which means I can focus and achieve the results. Jim Rembach: (23:05) Yeah. We have to have that built in agility. Right. Okay. So you all off, you know, through our, our discussion here, um, used many different co quotes and those are absolutely focal points. You know, they point us in the right direction and we really, you know, look at those on the fast leader show and share them a lot. So is there one or two they’re all riddled throughout your book? You’ve mentioned a few, but it’s are kind of one or two that stand out for you as focal points. Mary Lippitt: (23:31) Well, I think there’s one from Ben Franklin. I like that. Just something like, Oh, if you stop, if you don’t think creatively you, it’s like giving up your, your, your future, your life. I it thinking is critical to our life and it gets a bad name, particularly the term critical thinking. Cause it sounds like I have to be a cynic or I have to be, you know, poking somebody in, putting up shortfalls. But really critical thinking, you know, it could be as subtle as, would you want me to investigate this aspect of this? You know, and people say yes. So you can be very comprehensive in your analysis without being, you know, a naysayer or a problem child kind of thing. Jim Rembach: (24:19) Now it’s interesting that you say that. I mean a lot of people may say, well it’s just semantics but it’s semantics are critically important. I’m sorry. I think give us context and they give us understanding. It’s like we’ve built a fide so many different words in our society that, you know, if we would have used them just a hundred years ago would have had a totally different, you know, context. I mean, I often refer to the one of ignorant and if you look it up, it just says innocent, unknowing. But yet if anything is labeled as ignorant, it is vilified. And that’s just, that’s just unfortunate. Now when we start talking about these, these transformations, these transitions, these learnings and all that stuff, I mean we talk about getting over the hump on the show. Um, and those personal stories of when we had those experiences can be so helpful for others. I just was telling my daughter the other day, I said, even though you may not want to hear my stories, you know, if you actually work to listen, seeing that we’re very similar in the way that we go about thinking, maybe you’ll gain some insight for yourself, you know, choose a better path. Of course she doesn’t want to hear that from dad. But, um, is there a time where you’ve gotten over the hump that you can share? Mary Lippitt: (25:26) Yes. Um, early in my career I thought rational analysis would always win the day. And I was trying to influence up, uh, the chain of command and I got rejected and I couldn’t believe it. I was dumbfounded. And it wasn’t until I got a task I was, we had a, this was a large organization, we had about 30,000 employees and I got tasked with writing the head executives monthly column to the employees. So I got to sit down and talk with him. And we saw things very differently as what was a priority and how we analyzed it was very different. Now if you’re writing the top executive, you got to adjust your thinking to his point of view. Obviously extra. I write something, he’s going to review it, he’s going to edit it. He would rather not have to edit it heavily. So I hadn’t, I had to start opening my own mind. Mary Lippitt: (26:32) I have to tell you, I was convinced sometimes that I had more answers than I really had and I thought I saw things more clearly than I really did. Um, there’s, there’s a comment, you know, what you see is not all there is. And I, that was my opening to begin to recognize I didn’t see everything and all the facts that I thought I had had many gaps but I’d never had collected them. So that exercise of writing for him really showed me how differently people fought. And again, we tend in our society to say, if you think differently from me, you’re wrong. And, um, what I realized was when you think differently from me, you helped me. You helped me, I benefit from these differences. And so instead of labeling somebody right or wrong, you know, what can I learn? How do they see reality? Mary Lippitt: (27:31) What am I missing? And you know, there’s lots of stories about, you know, witnesses to car accidents and you know, everybody saw the same accident but they recall different things. That’s what we have to recognize in our organizations. People are going to focus on different things. Some will get the right, so we’ll get the wrong, but we’ve got at least collect them before we can evaluate them. And that was how I started to realize there really was, um, great wisdom that I was missing. And so I really learned the importance of asking more questions rather than asking just a couple of, you know, jumping into my conclusions, which I was fairly sure I was right. Um, I mean this is basically the confirmation bias. I collected the information that supported my point of view. And sometimes I remind people that at one point in time bankers said you could give a 95% mortgage because home prices never go down more than 5%. That was a false assumption. And so I’m beginning to become maybe is more humble because I’m realizing I don’t have all the information, but I also realized that no one does. And so this is why we need to work together. And so I think we could work together to produce results. But we also, when we work together, we show respect for another person. We showed that we value them and we therefore engage them and we get the kind of collaboration and teamwork that makes our jobs very satisfying. Jim Rembach: (29:03) Well, the only way that it does that though, Mary, is because if we have, you know, very useful frameworks because otherwise all of that diversity and different perspectives are going to not enable us to move forward. And that’s why I’m really glad that you’ve actually shared these situational mindset models and everything else that goes with it. So when I start looking at that and looking at the, you know, where you’ve been in the work that you’ve done in the work that you’re still yet to do, when I start thinking about some of the goals you have, um, I’d like to hear one, what is one goal that you have? Mary Lippitt: (29:37) I would like to expand our definition of leadership to include making sure that we balance the short and the longterm and the ability to gain active support from others. I think that our focal point of leadership has become a little too narrow and I value everything we’ve done in the past. Um, just it, my uncle Ronald lipid with Kurt Loland did the very first leadership study in 1938 it was called the Lou and liquid white study and they came up with laissez Faire leadership and all that. And I really think everything that we’ve done in leadership has been fantastic, uh, whether it’s group dynamics, whether it’s emotional intelligence, whether it’s style, whatever else. But I think we’ve left out our situational ability to, to deliver, uh, the best for the organization. So I really would like to expand how we look at leadership Jim Rembach: (30:43) and this world of customer centric transformation. And you know, I’m a digital transformation and all of that. This type of leadership is really bottled to not just the success of an organization, but the existence of an organization and the fast leader Legion wishes you the very best. Now before we move on, let’s get a quick word from our sponsor. And even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award. Winning solutions, guaranteed to create motivated, productive, and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers. To learn more about an even better place to work, visit [inaudible] dot com for slash better. All right, here we go. Fast leader Legion. It’s time for the home. Oh now, okay Mary, the hump day. Hold on as a part of our show where you give us good insights fast. So I’m going to ask you several questions and your job is to be as give us robust yet rapid responses are going to help us move onward and upward faster. Mary rib lipid. Are you ready to hoedown all right, so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today? Mary Lippitt: (31:55) I like to so much to look at new ideas, but sometimes I forget the priority of following through with my immediate goal so I can become distracted and I need to re remember it again. What is my priority today? Jim Rembach: (32:14) What is the best leadership advice you have ever received? Mary Lippitt: (32:18) Listen, persevere and respect others. Jim Rembach: (32:24) What do you believe is one of your secrets that helps you contribute to your success? Mary Lippitt: (32:29) I think I’ve developed the ability to ask good questions. Jim Rembach: (32:33) And what is one of your tools that helps you lead in business or life? Mary Lippitt: (32:38) I a situational mindset checklist. It’s a basically reminding me what questions I need to ask and those questions can be tailored to the level of the organization or the type of industry. So that really helps me. And I know that some people discount the, the, the importance of a checklist, but I’ll say lawyers, doctors, pilots and Santa Claus. You checklist Jim Rembach: (33:04) and what would be one book that you’d recommend to our Legion? And it could be from any genre. Of course, we’re going to put a link to situational mindsets on your show notes page as well. Mary Lippitt: (33:14) Well, I think the Daniel Kahneman’s thinking fast and slow is absolutely fantastic book. And I also will give a shout out to the art of war, my son zoo many, many years ago, which again talked about the importance of learning the lay of the ground. And that’s what I’m talking about with situationals concepts. Jim Rembach: (33:34) Okay. Fast, literally. And you can find links to that and other bonus information from today’s show by going to fast leader.net/mary lipid. Okay, Mary, this is my last Humpday hold on question. Imagine you’ve been given the opportunity to go back to the age of 25 and you can take the knowledge and skills that you have no back with you, but you can’t take it all. You can only choose one. So what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why? Mary Lippitt: (33:57) I would take back the ability to say I do not know. And the that leads to my willingness, um, to ask the questions and again, engage people and make a better decision. I really, I think for a while thought I do not know, was demeaning of me when I now realize it is showing the fact that I understand the complexity of this world. Jim Rembach: (34:24) Mary, I had fun with you today. Can you please share with the fast leader Legion how they can connect with you? Mary Lippitt: (34:30) Uh, they can connect with me at Mary, at situational mindsets.com or www, situational mindsets.com Jim Rembach: (34:39) Mary lipid, thank you for sharing and knowledge and wisdom. Fast leader Legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump.